Podcast: Play in new window | Download
You know, this isn’t really a true crime podcast, but today’s episode sure puts it in that category.
Ramon and Lulu got married, and for the first few years it was great. They had a business that was doing very well, they built a new house, they had cars and nice clothes. Life was good.
Of course, every marriage has its ups and downs. If you’re married, you know what I mean. But in most cases, a marriage that goes bad just ends in a divorce, and eventually everyone gets on with their lives.
That’s not what happened with Ramon and Lulu.
Ramon was okay with getting a divorce, and he wanted them to split everything 50/50. Lulu didn’t want that. She wanted everything. And if she couldn’t have everything, she wanted Ramon dead. So she paid someone to kill him.
I had a great conversation with Ramon, so obviously he is not dead. But he has been through quite a horrific ordeal, including lying in his own grave while being photographed as if he had been shot in the head.
Like I said, not your typical divorce story. Here’s the police body cam video of the day Lulu was arrested:
Ramon has written a book about what happened, and the book includes a lot of details that we did not talk about here on the podcast. Get it here.
Mundo has also written a book from his perspective, available on Amazon here.
(book links are affiliate links)
Episode transcript (download transcript PDF)
You know, this isn’t really a true crime podcast, but today’s episode sure puts it in that category.
Ramon and Lulu got married, and for the first few years it was great. They had a business that was doing very well, they built a new house, they had cars and nice clothes. Life was good.
Of course, every marriage has its ups and downs. If you’re married, you know what I mean. But in most cases, a marriage that goes bad just ends in a divorce, and eventually everyone gets on with their lives.
That’s not what happened with Ramon and Lulu.
Ramon was okay with getting a divorce, and he wanted them to split everything 50/50. Lulu didn’t want that. She wanted everything. And if she couldn’t have everything, she wanted Ramon dead. So she paid someone to kill him.
I had a great conversation with Ramon, so obviously he is not dead. But he has been through quite a horrific ordeal, including lying in his own grave while being photographed as if he had been shot in the head.
Like I said, not your typical divorce story. I’ll have pictures on the website, as well as a video of Lulu on a day that didn’t go very well for her.
And now, please enjoy my conversation with Ramon.
Scott
On a scale of 1-10, how weird is the feeling of lying down in your own grave?
Ramon
It’s an 11 – it was the craziest thing ever. When the detectives came up to me and said, “We have one more thing we have to do to go through this whole case.” It was to put me in a grave with a bullet wound in my head. I just cannot believe what I was hearing.
Scott
That is just unbelievable! All right. Well, let’s talk about how you got to that point. You came from Puerto Rico and you opened a gym in Houston, correct?
Ramon
Yeah, I was born in Puerto Rico. I resided in the United States and lived on the East Coast for a while. I moved to Texas as a teenager and have been boxing since I was about 8 years old. Boxing has been my life – I love boxing. I competed in a lot of amateur fights. I turned pro when I was 17. Things didn’t go my way because I had the wrong kind of management. I’m still going to be involved with boxing, so I decided to open up a gym and coach, and it started from there. Up to this day, I still love boxing.
Scott
Yeah. Obviously, you have a real passion for that.
Ramon
Correct.
Scott
Two people came into your life – let’s talk a little bit about each one of these people. First of all, Mundo, in 2005 – can you tell us about him?
Ramon
Yeah. I think Mundo actually came up a little earlier than that. Mundo came into my life when I had a gym but it wasn’t my gym – I was helping out at a gym where I had my nonprofit – it was a church. Back then, I had – I still have it – a nonprofit called Young Prospects Boxing. Mundo just happened to walk into my gym. He was a young man in his early 20s and a little bit overweight. He just seemed very honest to me. He told me that he just wanted to learn how to box. He loved boxing but he didn’t have the opportunity to do it when he was young. He said, “I don’t want to compete. I’m just a little too old to compete, but I want to learn how to box.” He was very odd. He told me all about his background and we just, kind of, hooked in. He was beginning to be, like, a part of my family. I had 2 sons and a daughter, so he was part of that too – he became my 3rd son.
Scott
Then, the other person that came into your life was Lulu. What’s her actual name?
Ramon
Her real name is Maria DeLourdes Durantes – that’s her main name – and she goes by ‘Lulu.’ I met her in 2007. Back then, I was divorced for about 7-8 years. I went out. I wanted to go have some drinks and hang out for a little while, so I went to a Mexican restaurant that turns into, basically, a club after 10 or 11 in Woodlands, Texas – I think it was. So, I went there just just to hang out. Salsa music – that’s the stuff that I like. That’s where I met her. She was in there. We met, we were visually attracted to each other, and then we danced the night away.
Scott
That was a pretty quick romance. How long before you got married?
Ramon
We got married about a year and a half later – we dated for about a year and a half. We got to meet each other’s families. She came from Mexico City. I think her son, Louise, was maybe 12-13 years old. Her daughter, Carla, was maybe 6-8 years old. So, she had 2 kids and I had 3 kids from previous marriages. So, we dated for about a year and a half before we decided to get married.
Scott
So it suddenly became a pretty big family…
Ramon
Yeah, it did. In the beginning, it was a little bit rough trying to merge our families together because, at that age, kids seem to be jealous of their parents and stuff like that. My kids were a little older than hers, so they were okay – they understood. Getting along with her son was a little tough, sometimes, because that’s his mother and he was a little bit jealous of another man coming around.
Scott
Yeah, that’s understandable. How long before things started to go south with the marriage?
Ramon
We were doing well at the beginning of the marriage – the first 3 years were, like, what they call the honeymoon years. It was excellent. She treated me like a king. We talked about massages – foot massages. She got up early in the morning before I even get out of bed and I had breakfast already made for me. She was just a wonderful person who treated me like a king. I was so grateful for marrying this person. I was in love – I thought it was love.
Scott
And the gym was doing pretty well too, right? You’re making pretty good money?
Ramon
Yeah, we decided to open a gym up around about 2009 or 2010. We opened up a big gym and it was doing very, very well with me and my boxing background. Lulu was very, very savvy with business. She basically took care of the business side of it and took care of the training. Later on, she decided to start training people too. In the beginning, it worked out and it was doing very, very well, and it did well for a long time.
Scott
Yeah, that sounds like a perfect partnership with each of your skills combined together
Ramon
Exactly. That’s what I thought I had. The money was coming in. We were doing very well and the gym was doing very well. So, I thought everything was great for a while.
Scott
But then, it wasn’t so great.
Ramon
We had our differences sometimes and, I think, it all started with the kids – especially with her son. The young man actually thought that he was the man of the house. I tried to sit there and talk to him. I explained to him that there can only be one man in this house and that I’m the one who pays the bills, put clothes on his back, and food in his stomach. It was just tough. I think it all started from having problems with the kids. Then, he started getting jealous of my kids because my kids are educated and they do well for themselves. There was jealousy between her kids and my kids – I think it started with that. That was our biggest problem at the beginning.
Scott
Sounds like a lot of different dynamics happening at the same time.
Ramon
Yeah, it was.
Scott
And then, at some point, there were accusations of abuse. How did that come about?
Ramon
Yeah. Well, this is a little background on her… When Lulu came to this country – she was here on an American visa – she got married to me. Then, she automatically got a residency. She applied for US citizenship. About 3 years later, she, her kids, & her mother became American citizens. So, they all became American citizens illegally in this country because of me. Then, right after she got all that, I noticed that she started showing her temper – I know she had a little temper all the time, but she started changing a little more – and we started having more and more arguments. We went on a vacation to Puerto Rico one time. We had a disagreement in Puerto Rico at the hotel to the point where we had to get separated. That night, she slept in one room while I slept in separate rooms. I had no idea that she had filed a report – not a police report – at the hotel. She put on there that I had scratched her – that was the first. I would never put a hand on her ever, EVER. She had scratches on her fingers, and I was thinking, “What?!” That’s when I figured that something was going on, but we were able to resolve that problem and talk through it. One thing about Lulu is she knows how to manipulate people – she is a good manipulator. She knows how to use her beauty and charm to get whatever she wants, kind of, like a psychopath – that’s what I felt, like, she was trying to do to me.
Scott
When you saw that report where she was making these accusations that obviously weren’t true, you must have thought, “Man, do I really know who this person is?”
Ramon
Yeah. Until this day, she still claims and swears that I did that to her, and it was investigated. Then, she tried to tell me that she didn’t call the police in Puerto Rico although the hotel security came up to the room and talked to me. We told them what had happened – we just had a disagreement. She knew how to push buttons. She knew exactly what buttons to push to get me involved in a disagreement. It always started with her talking crazy stuff about my kids. So I’m like, “Look, just be respectful.” That’s all I asked. When the hotel security came up, they talked to her outside. Then, some came inside and talked to me, and not one of them. If you have scratches or bleeding, they would say, “Look, she has scratches or she’s bleeding.” None of them mentioned that to me because they know that it wasn’t true. But then, when I saw that on the report, I’m like, “Whoa, what are you talking about?! She’s up to something.”
Scott
Yeah. So, it ended up that you guys finally decided you were going to get a divorce…
Ramon
Yeah, it got to that point. In 2015, she filed for divorce – I was okay with that. We tried to go to counseling before that and do different things but she just didn’t want to do it. She said, “This is not gonna work out.” But in the divorce, she wanted everything – she wanted the house, she wanted the business, she wanted the car, she wanted everything… I know, sometimes, a lot of men walk away, leave everything, and just start over again, but I feel like I worked too hard for everything I have – the gym, the business, and everything was just too much work. So, I said, “Let’s go half” and she tried to fight it. When it got to the point where we couldn’t live together – we had a two-story home – she was living upstairs with her mother and her two kids, and I was living downstairs by myself. There was so much tension – it was just a bad and horrible thing.
Scott
Now, how does that work in terms of citizenship? Even if you guys get divorced, she’d still remain a US citizen, right?
Ramon
Oh, yeah. She is an American citizen. She has all the rights just like you and me – along with her kids and her mother – and until this day, I have not gotten one “Thank you.”
Scott
I don’t think you’ll get that.
Ramon
No, I don’t think so. I don’t expect it as it is. They’re lucky to be here because of me. It’s even more incredible that they try to kill me afterward.
Scott
Alright. One day, there was a conversation in the gym, I think, was with Lulu, her daughter, your protege, or your son, Mundo. What was that about?
Ramon
Yeah, it was crazy. Mundo would take care of the gym for me, especially on the weekends – we take breaks on Saturday. He had the key to open and close the gym. So, other than Lulu and me, he could come in and go whenever he feels like it – that’s how much trust I have in him. Mundo already knew that we were going through a divorce – I talked to him and he knew what was going on. On one particular night, I was there at the gym. What he told me is that he walked into a conversation between Lulu and her daughter, Carla. In that conversation, Carla told Lulu that there was a kid in the gym from Mexico. That kid told Carla that he has an uncle in Mexico who kills and chop up people for a living. That’s when Mundo walked into the conversation and told them, “Hey, watch what you’re talking about. You never know who’s listening.” They kind of laughed it off like it was nothing and not a big deal. Then, later that evening. he said that he kind of pulled Lulu to the side, one-on-one, when there was hardly anybody in the gym and they were about to close. Mundo was a young man and I helped him when he was going through a lot of problems. We just mentor him, basically, with a lot of stuff. And she knew his background.
Scott
His background meant that he knew people that could do stuff.
Ramon
Yeah. When he was younger, he was involved in gangs and stuff like that. But he was a young man that became a great person. So, I guess that’s why she trusted him when Mundo came up to her and said, “This is about Ramon?” She said, “Yeah, it is about him. I wish they would take him. I wish he would just go away. He should just disappear.” Then, he made the pistol sign over his shoulder and said, “Disappear like this?” He put the pistol on his shoulder.
Scott
You mean with his fingers?
Ramon
Yeah. He just put up two fingers and a thumb, like, the sign of a pistol. Then, she said, “Yeah. Like that.” That’s when this young man made a decision – that is the reason I’m talking to you right now. Right there, he said, “Well, I got people who can do the job for you.” She believed him. Then, Mundo called me the next day – I remember that I was driving. Mundo likes to joke around sometimes – we joked around and stuff like that. When he called me and told me that, I told him, “Mundo, quit joking around, quit messing around. I don’t believe that kind of stuff.” He went, “Look. I’ve seen the look on people’s faces when they want to kill somebody. She’s for real.” Then, he said that he was gonna meet her later that evening, have a conversation, and record the conversation on his phone – she had no idea what was going on. That’s when it all started.
Scott
I just can’t imagine. I mean, she knew your relationship with Mundo – you are like a father to him. How could she have such a bad misjudgment of his character to think that he would be involved in this?
Ramon
Yeah, it was just the worst situation. There were so many thoughts that went through my head, like, “Why did she believe him? Why did she think that he would do something like that?” When Mundo reacted the way he reacted by telling her, “I got the people that can do the job.” I guess that she was so desperate to, like, get it done. So, that’s where it all started.
Scott
It must have taken you a little bit of time just to process the thought of, “Wow, she really wants to do this.”
Ramon
Yeah, not only that. After hearing that, I had to go home, see her face, and act like I didn’t know what was going on – that was the weirdest feeling. She was sleeping upstairs and I was downstairs. So, basically, I was sleeping with the enemy in my own house – I was sleeping with one eye open after I found out what was going on.
Scott
So, what was the plan that you came up with?
Ramon
Actually, Mundo is the one who came up with a plan. He said, “Some of us will have conversations with her. So I’m gonna go out there, talk to her, and record everything until we have enough evidence. We got to the point where Mundo asked for money for a dirty gun – they call it a street gun or whatever. He said that it was going to be $200, and she gave him the money. Once Mundo had the money, we felt like we had enough evidence. So, we went to the police. In the beginning, they didn’t believe us. I mean, they believed but, in the precinct where I lived, they had never dealt with anything like this. So, they talked to Mundo and me together. Then, they separated us to make sure both of our stories were the same. Shortly after that, they called in the state police, the FBI, the rangers, and they put a plan together – that’s where it all started with them – then, they took over. They brought in undercover police officers to start meeting with Lulu, and this undercover officer was one of the hitmen that Mundo had told Lulu about who was going to do the job. So, she thought that this man whom she was talking to was the guy that Mundo got for her. She had no idea that he was an undercover officer.
Scott
He was a policeman. Can you talk a little bit about why was it difficult for Mundo to go through with this plan?
Ramon
Like I said earlier, Mundo was a young man who was involved with gangs. Once he joined a gang and try to leave it, you’re in the game for life. In the gang life, you don’t snitch on anybody, you don’t talk about that kind of stuff, and they take that at heart – that was the biggest problem that he had. He told me straight up that this is something that he did for me because, in his life, that’s the kind of stuff they don’t do – he felt like that was something that he had to do to save my life. So, he said he felt like if he didn’t take that chance of doing what he did, maybe she would have asked somebody else – I didn’t know if she had a plan B. So, even though we were doing this, I didn’t know if it was just Mundo and his plan or if she had talked to somebody else just in case that didn’t work – it was very hectic.
Scott
Yeah, if it didn’t work out with him, obviously, she would have tried finding somebody else like this other kid whose uncle–
Ramon
Yeah, exactly.
Scott
So how did that play out? She paid money. What happened after that?
Ramon
There were 2 hitmen that Mundo had told her about. They met with her and Mundo. I told the officers, “Look, you need to keep Mundo in the loop because as soon as she finds out that Mundo’s out, she’s gonna start noticing something.” So, Mundo would always meet with them also at the same time. They met the undercover officers with the car, lights, and audio, so they think they had everything. On this particular evening, they told her, “Look, we’re ready to do the hit, and it’s gonna cost you $12,000.” She said, “Well, I don’t have all the money right now, but I give you some money and some jewelry.” I came to find out that the jewelry that she gave them was my jewelry – wedding rings, watches, my own stuff. She gave them as a down payment to have me killed. Then, she went to the bank, got some money out, and gave him some cash. Then, she said, “I tell you what. He likes wearing really nice watch – he’s always wearing it. So, when you kill him, you can keep that watch too because it’s worth a lot of money.” Then, another thing that she said was, “As soon as he dies, I’m going to get his pension, I’m going to get all his retirement, and I’m gonna get all his money. With that money, I can pay you the rest.” So, she had it all planned out.
Scott
Yeah, she had obviously put a lot of thought into how everything is going to work out.
Ramon
Yeah. She knew exactly how much I was worth. At one point, they even asked her to see if she was really, really wanted to go through it and to give her one last chance to get out of it. They asked her, “Do you want us to beat him up? We can beat him up.” She said, “No, he’s better to me dead. I want him dead.”
Scott
Yeah, beating you up really wouldn’t do anything.
Ramon
No. We were still going through a divorce. So, she wanted to make sure that they kill me before – I think it was August or September – we finalize our divorce. This was at, like, the end of July. She told them, “Look, you need to finish this before the divorce is finalized because if he dies after the divorce is finalized, I don’t get anything – he’ll give it to his kids and I won’t get anything.” She was worried about my kids getting all the money and she not getting anything.
Scott
This sounds like a woman without any feeling or empathy.
Ramon
No. She was thinking about nobody but herself – she didn’t think about her family, her kids, anything. All she wanted was, “I want to get this divorce.” She felt that things were going her way. Her attorney thought they were going her way. Apparently, she didn’t think that things were going her way, so I guess that’s what made her go, “What do I have to do to take this man out? The only way that it’s gonna happen is like this.”
Scott
So, after she paid that and gave the final order, that’s when you and the cops went into Hollywood mode.
Ramon
Yeah. After she gave the money and all the jewelry to them, they had enough evidence to have her arrested and I thought that was gonna be it. Then, they called me in. They said, “Ramon, we need to talk to you.” I said, “Okay.” I was used to going in there and talking to them about this whole process. When they took me in there – I remember it was, kind of, scary because they brought me in there at night like this – the officers from the FBI and the local constables were all there in, like, a meeting room. They explained to us and said, “Look, we have enough evidence to arrest Lulu right now, but we just don’t want to take any chances. If we go to a jury trial, some of these jurors may have sympathy for her because she’s a single mother, she’s never been in problems, and a lot of people in the community know her – from the boxing gym and stuff like that. So, they might feel sorry for her. So, what they wanted to do was to make it a slam dunk case – this thing is gonna be 100%. So, what they wanted to do was take a picture of me dead and show it to her. I was like, “What did you say?! Dead?!” He said, “Yeah, we’re going to have a picture of you dead, we’re going to put you in a grave, and we’re going to show you the picture to prove that the job was done.” So, they pulled out real pictures – I’ll never forget that. The DA and Assistant DA were there. They pulled out pictures of real dead people with bullet wounds to the head and they said, “Okay, we’re going to pick this one right here. This is what we’re gonna do.” The next day, they said, “Well, this is going to happen. We’re going to disappear you for 3 days.” So, nobody knew where I was – Mundo and my family had no idea where was going on.
Scott
Where were you for those 3 days?
Ramon
They took me out of town to a hotel – it wasn’t that far from the south of Houston.
Scott
Where nobody would see you or anything…
Ramon
Nobody knew. Nobody had any idea. They took me out. I had to meet this officer in the middle of the night and they had everything set up. I have no idea what was going on. They said, “Now, we’re gonna put this makeup on you.” Before that, they took a picture. Then, they took me to this gravesite. At the gravesite, they had already dug up the hole. I swear it looked like something you see in one of these movies from, like, Scarface or something – it was just a horrible-looking thing. It was like a scene from a movie. All these cameras and all these people were there. Then, they said, “Okay, we’re gonna get you down to your underwear, finish up the makeup, and put you in a position like this. Close your eyes. We’re gonna put some dirt on you.” Then, they took what seemed like a thousand pictures.
Scott
How did they do the makeup?
Ramon
Oh, my goodness, that’s another thing. I thought these guys knew what they were doing. There were these 2 officers/constables. They went in there and – they had this little kit – they started putting some stuff on – it looked like something that some kids do for Halloween. So I said, “Man, this is not gonna work.” I came to find out that they had learned on Youtube about how to put bullet wounds on their head for whatever reasons – for Halloween or whatever. When it came out, I said, “Man, let me tell you something. She’s not going to go for this, man. I know Lulu. She knows how to do Photoshop – she likes that kind of stuff – and messing with pictures. She’s not going to go for this. Here’s what we have to do.” Sure enough, they did it. This is where it gets crazy – the undercover officers took the pictures to her, told her that they have finished the job, and showed her the picture of me, supposedly, dead with a bullet wound at the side of my forehead. The first question that she asked the officer was, “He’s not getting up, right?” And they started laughing – that hurts so much. I mean, when I saw that video, I was like, “Did she just say ‘he’s not getting up’ and started laughing?” She thought that, literally, she had just hit the lotto when she saw that picture.
Scott
Of course, she had no reason to believe that it was fake – she didn’t have any reason to suspect it. Obviously, she really wanted badly to believe that it was true.
Ramon
She had so many people manipulated by telling lies about me that I was a drunk, that I was abusive, and that I had hit her kids – they had filed false police reports on me. I mean, I was just the worst man that there could be. So, she already had made people believe, “He’s not what people think.” So, when I ‘died’, they’re like, “Oh, he deserved it.” That’s the type of person that she was. She had a lot of people believing bad things about me, but it was all a lie. The whole time, I had to be quiet, I had to bite my tongue, I couldn’t say anything, although I already knew what was going on with the murder-for-hire.
Scott
So, they showed her that picture. In her mind, she finalized the deal and it was all done. Then, from that point, you were missing for three days?
Ramon
I had been missing after that. After they took a picture of me, they took me to the hotel, so I had been missing for three days. Nobody knew where I was at. My family, my kids, and everybody was looking for me. Then, they went and arrested her – this was the next day after they showed her the picture. Two officers went to my gym – she was at the office with her daughter – and talked to her. They said that they were doing a missing person report on me because I’d been gone for three days. She had this look like she was surprised, like, “I don’t know. I’ve been calling. I called a sister and they don’t know where he’s at. I call his friends and they don’t know where he’s at.” Then, she called and talked to her mother there. She said, “Mom, when was the last time we saw Ramon?” She said something like, “I think I saw him on Wednesday somewhere,” while knowing that she was just laughing the night before when she saw a picture of me dead.
Scott
And this is the audio of the day that the officers went to the gym, supposedly, to ask Lulu about the fact that Ramon was missing and to see if she knew where he might be. Of course, they knew he was in hiding and she thought he was dead, so she just played dumb. Then, they arrested her.
Detective Martinez
I’m Detective Martinez. I have a few questions for you. Is there somewhere can talk in private?
Lulu
Yes, sure. Please come this way.
Detective Martinez
Okay. I never knew there is a boxing gym here.
Lulu
Yes. We are here for five years now.
Detective Martinez
Okay.
Lulu
This is my daughter and my mother.
Detective Martinez
Okay. I got a call today that, apparently, your husband hasn’t been to work today.
Lulu
That’s what I think. I received a call today from a friend at work. He called me today and asked me for some information. I said, “Well, I haven’t seen him. We’re going through the divorce.”
Detective Martinez
When was the last time you saw him?
Lulu
Wednesday was the last time I saw him with my mom and my daughter. I was here from 4 AM to 12.30. Then I go home, take a shower, and then come back. That’s when we, sometimes, see him.
Detective Martinez
So he hasn’t contacted you in the last 24 hours?
Lulu
No.
Detective Martinez
When was the last time you checked your phone to make sure that you don’t have a missed call? Are you like most people? Do you check your phone a lot?
Lulu
Yeah, I have my phone with me all the time.
Detective Martinez
Okay, Miss Sosa. You’re under arrest.
Lulu
Why?!?!
Detective Martinez
It’s okay. Stay back. We have a warrant.
Ramon
So the officers were right there and said, “We have an arrest warrant.” They arrested her in front of her mother and her daughter – there were still clients in the gym. So, they took her in from there and that was it – she just got locked up.
Scott
She had to know right at that time.
Ramon
Oh, yeah. She knew exactly what was going on. She told her mother to call her attorney because she knew what she had done – there was no doubt. Then, my family didn’t know what was going on. The next thing I know was there was a press conference. My news came out in every network around the nation. They showed what happened about me being a murder-for-hire or that she had been arrested for murder-for-hire – so, how my family found out was through the news.
Scott
So you didn’t even tell them? Did they find out by watching the news?
Ramon
Yeah. I didn’t have a chance because they had a press conference. By the time I could call them, it was too late and it was just mad crazy. People were crying and calling me. They had no idea that this was even going on, and it was crazy. Crazy.
Scott
Of course. You’ve been missing for three days and your kids didn’t even know where you were.
Ramon
Exactly.
Scott
How did you reunite with them? When did you meet up?
Ramon
Well, back then, my oldest son, Mitchell, was in San Antonio. He graduated from college and started working in San Antonio. Then, I have another son in LA, Cris. He’s in the acting and comedy business. My daughter was out there in LA too – she was modeling back then too. Two of them were in LA, so I called the one in San Antonio, Mitchell, and told him what was going on. The first thing that came out of his mouth was, like, “What the hell’s going on?” So, I explained to him. It was tougher talking to my daughter because she’s the youngest. Let me tell you… I’ve never heard that cry in my life when she heard my voice – she cried and cried and cried and it was horrible. To this day, it still bothers me.
Scott
They realize that they could have lost their dad.
Ramon
Yeah, exactly. I was close to being dead but, thank God, it worked out for me.
Scott
The visit to the gym where Lulu got arrested is on video. I’ll have that video on the website for this episode, so people can watch that if they want to.
Ramon
Yeah. It’s kind of crazy to know that, the day before, she was laughing and asking the undercover officer – whom she thought was the hitmen – if I was gonna go to get up and, the next day, she’s all worried about me. Cool. That’s what a psychopath does – that kind of stuff.
Scott
So, she got arrested. I think, a year later, she took a plea deal?
Ramon
Yeah. She was arrested for first-degree solicitation of capital murder and they gave her a million-dollar bond. A year and a half later, there was so much evidence stacked up against her that she had, like, 3 different attorneys trying to work with her – they finally gave up and said, “We’re just gonna plead.” She pleaded down to a second-degree capital murder solicitation of capital murder and got 20 years. When she got a sentence, I went to the hearing and they let me talk, they asked me if I wanted to say something, and I did. When I got up there, she never looked at me, she was standing in front of the judge and looking towards the judge with her attorney. I told her that I forgave her because I was living with this rage and this anger. I cannot go day-to-day. I wasn’t sleeping. I was so stressed out. I feel like the only way I can release all that stress and anger was by telling her that. Unless you are in a position like I was, you don’t understand the situation that goes through your mind and the anger that I have for her, her family, and everybody who was involved in trying to kill me. I forgave her. I said, “Everybody in this courtroom has made mistakes in their life. We’re not perfect, but for the mistakes that you’ve made, you’re gonna pay the consequences for, and God is gonna take care of it.” She never looked at me. She had no remorse – not once. All the times that we were in court for all the hearings, there was not one time that she had any remorse. I guessed that she felt like she was right for what she did. So, that’s the last thing I remember about her. Lulu loved wearing nice expensive clothes and shoes. We did well with the gym. Then, seeing her in a jumpsuit of pink and white stripes, chained up, wearing those $1 state shoes was the last thing I saw her when they took her away.
Scott
The night that she saw the picture of you dead and laughed may have been the last night she laughed since then.
Ramon
Yeah. The way she was laughing – she was very happy. I keep telling people that it looked like she had just hit the lotto, literally, because she said, “He’s not getting up, so it’s time for me to get paid now, basically.”
Scott
So she was sentenced to 20 years. When did she actually start serving that time? How much time has she served now?
Ramon
I believe since 2015. I guess they started with the time she got arrested in June 2015. So, it’s been 4 years and she’s at a state penitentiary in Texas.
Scott
Is there a chance that she would get out early?
Ramon
I’m pretty sure there is – with good behavior. I think she’s been out for parole a couple of times – believe it or not. I had to write letters and have people write letters. She has been denied.
Scott
That seems so soon for a 20-years-sentence to be out for parole after a couple of years.
Ramon
Yeah. I don’t know how that works in the state of Texas, but they have denied her both times. So, I don’t know what’s going to happen.
Scott
Have you thought about when she gets out of prison?
Ramon
Oh, yeah. Trust me. I still live with this. There’s not a day that goes by – not being scared – without me being very, very cautious of everything that’s around me. That’s one thing that she did to me – I still have a lot of problems trusting people. I’ve been staying away from, sometimes, even my family and even Mundo – the young man who I owe my life to. I have, kind of, separated myself from a lot of people that helped me and it’s not because I wanted to. It’s just because I just need time to recoup. Every day, I felt a pistol get close to my head. There was a time when I was sleeping on my own bed with a loaded shotgun. I also had a 40-millimeter gun in my kitchen and a 9-millimeter in the car loaded at all times – that’s how I lived for a while but is that a way to live?
Lulu comes from a family in Mexico. Her family – her sister, brother-in-law – does well for themselves. They do well in the business that they own, and I think that they can just pay anyone from Mexico to come over here and take me out for nothing, basically, for revenge, but I live in God’s hands. I pray and I let him take care of it. I have people that still watch me. Until this day, I still watch myself and watch my back because I still don’t know if there’s a plan B or C. Like I said, the separation that I created with my family, Mundo, and the people who love me is not because I’m trying to be mean, it’s because I need time. I’m going through counseling too because this has not been easy in my life.
Scott
It’s not like you can find a group therapy with other people who have been targeted for murder. I mean, the situation that you were in is unique.
Ramon
Yeah. It’s been very tough.
Scott
I understand Mundo is trying to keep a low profile as well, fearing retribution from his past – gang activities and that kind of thing.
Ramon
Yeah. Unfortunately, he also has to live like that, but he did it for me, and I owe my life to the Mundo. I’ve told people – whoever it is who interviewed me – that God puts people in your path for a reason. He put the young man, Mundo, in my path for a reason – he was that angel who saved my life. If it wasn’t for him, I would not be here right now.
Scott
And he has written a book based on his perspective about the part he has played in this.
Ramon
Yeah. Mundo said that he wrote a book called, “My Son Mundo.” I wish him the best. I mean, to people out there listening, go out there and get his book.
Scott
Yeah, I’ll have a link to where you can buy that book on the website as well for anyone who wants to read that.
Ramon
Yeah. I wish him the best and I hope people out there go get his book.
Scott
What’s your day-to-day like now? Do you still train young kids to fight?
Ramon
No. I sold my gym. It was just too much for me at that time when all this stuff happened. I try to keep up with it for almost a few months but there were too many memories and too much work for just me. We lost a lot of members because of what happened and I was, eventually, building it up again. So, I ended up selling it. I also rented my house out – the house where Lulu and I lived. There were just too many memories. I moved out into Houston. I was living in the wilderness area, like, north of Houston. I’ve been writing a book and it’ll be out soon as the summer approaches.
Scott
What’s the title of your book?
Ramon
The name of the book is called, “I Walked on My Own Grave.” It talks about everything that happened – about me growing up, my family, and my kids. There are stories in there that have not been mentioned in any of my interviews around the world – I have not mentioned a lot of stuffs that are in the book that are, like, jaw-dropping – things that will make you be like, “Wow! How could I live through this? How did he live through that?” What I want is for couples to learn from this book because, a lot of times, we live in a time where men keep their mouths shut. Men don’t talk. Men are afraid to call the police because of the stigma of machismo – like, “Why do you call the police on a woman and that kind of stuff?” So, this is for them – they cannot keep their mouth shut because a lot of women use sexual assault and abuse… When it does happen and is legitimate, man, they need to throw the book. I mean, I have a mother, a sister and, most importantly, a daughter. If any man does that to one of them, I hope they throw the book at them and get put away forever. But when you turn it around and a woman does this to a man, although it is a lie, I could have been in prison for the rest of my life because of this woman, I could have been dead because of this woman.
Scott
There are men who are still currently in prison because of accusations that could never be proven.
Ramon
Exactly, exactly. The statistics show that it very seldom happens – if that happens to your father, your brother, or a man in your life – how would you like it if they call you and say, “Look, your father’s locked up for abusing a lady,” although he had nothing to do with that? When that happens, the book needs to be thrown at her.
Scott
That’s a good cause. This sounds like it has all the elements of a movie. Is there any possibility of that? Have you thought about that?
Ramon
Some people have called me about a movie deal and I said, “No,” because I don’t know about that kind of business and I haven’t made any decisions yet. So, when the time comes and is right, I just want to let the book speaks for itself. If everything goes well, we’ll see. I’ve been asked for some independent stuff, but I decided not to yet. I might just let the book go out there and see how it does. Again, it’s something that I believe is going to help out people who read about what happened to me – I hope they learn from it so that it doesn’t happen to them. If I can save one person or family or couple from going through what I went through, I think I’ve done my job.
Scott
Ramon, we are happy to help you share that message. Boy, what an amazing story! We really appreciate you coming on here and telling them.
Ramon
It’s been a pleasure, Scott. I definitely look forward to listening to your podcast. I hope that everybody out there enjoys this podcast and can learn something from it. If you know somebody who’s going through this, get them help. If you read my book or if you read Mundo’s book, I hope you learned something from it. We’re not perfect, but we can surely work at it with each other. If it doesn’t work out, you just get divorced and make things work that way. You don’t have to go to that extreme.
Scott
Thanks for listening to this episode. My goal for each show is to introduce you to people and stories that you just won’t find on other podcasts. If you want to help support the show, you just need to subscribe! That way, you’ll never miss an episode. You can click on any of the ‘Subscribe’ buttons on the website, which is WhatWasThatLike.com. You’ll see all the links right there at the top, where you can subscribe directly to this show on Apple podcast, Google podcasts, Google Play Music, Spotify, Stitcher, radio, or on whatever app you use to catch your podcasts. You’ll see there are also links to Twitter and Instagram – so, you can follow us there and I hope you do. If you really want to connect with me and get in on the discussion with other listeners to the show, you can join our private Facebook group. You can find that at WhatWasThatLike.com/Facebook. Of course, you can always email me directly at Scott@whatwasthatlike.com, or just go to the website and click on ‘Contact’. I’d love to hear what you think of this episode or a previous episode. Thanks again for listening and I’ll see you on the next show where we’ll once again ask the question, “What was that like?”