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Chloe accidentally started a business

Today’s episode is a little different. I’d like to know what you think about it.

My guest today is Chloe. Chloe is a university student in New York, and in the last couple of months, she has gone through a pretty radical change.

Two months ago, Chloe was in a desperate state. She was unemployed, having lost her job with no notice. After losing her job, she had gone through her savings. She was 48 hours away from having her electricity disconnected. She was a week away from losing her apartment. And she had 33 cents in her bank account. She was in a panic.

Chloe
Chloe

Fast forward 30 days. Her rent is now paid up. Her electric bill is current. And she is working, from home, 70 hours a week. And here’s the funny part – she didn’t find a job. She created one. How she did that is what she’s going to tell me about today. You can check out her website at advicebychloe.com.

Chloe
Chloe

From my point of view, I’m an entrepreneur myself, and I’ve been running my computer business for over 20 years. If you’re not aware of it, you can see my website at ComputerTutorFlorida.com. So I am always pretty fascinated with a business success story. But, like I said, this is not really the type of story I usually do on this podcast. That’s why I’d like to hear what you think of it. You can email me at Scott@whatwasthatlike.com.

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Episode transcript (download transcript PDF)

Today’s episode is a little different. I’d like to know what you think about it.

My guest today is Chloe. Chloe is a university student in New York, and in the last couple of months, she has gone through a pretty radical change.

Two months ago, Chloe was in a desperate state. She was unemployed, having lost her job with no notice. After losing her job, she had gone through her savings. She was 48 hours away from having her electricity disconnected. She was a week away from losing her apartment. And she had 33 cents in her bank account. She was in a panic.

Fast forward 30 days. Her rent is now paid up. Her electric bill is current. And she is working, from home, 70 hours a week. And here’s the funny part – she didn’t find a job. She created one. How she did that is what we’re gonna talk about today. You can check out her website at advicebychloe.com.

From my point of view, I’m an entrepreneur myself, and I’ve been running my computer business for over 20 years. If you’re not aware of it, you can see my website at ComputerTutorFlorida.com. So I am always pretty fascinated with a business success story. But, like I said, this is not really the type of story I usually do on this podcast. That’s why I’d like to hear what you think of it. You can email me at Scott@whatwasthatlike.com.

And if you’d like to join the others who support this show, for as little as a dollar a month, you can do that at WhatWasThatLike.com/support.

And now, here’s Chloe.

Scott  

Have you always been, kind of, good at identifying someone’s problem and being able to figure it out for them?

 

Chloe  

I often have people telling me that I’m good at it. I think I’m able to look at it from an unbiased perspective because I am an outside observer. So, I’m able to identify the components of the problem, figure out the root issue, and then work on solving it in a solution-focused way.

 

Scott 

That kind of makes sense. You’re kind of an outside observer – you’re not facing the same problem as the person involved is. Before we talk about this amazing business that you started, what happened before that? Can you give us, kind of, a profile of what type of person you are and what led you to what you have created here?

 

Chloe 

Oh, gosh. It happened really, really quickly.

 

Scott 

Yeah. From the time we record this, it started about 2 months ago, right?

 

Chloe 

Yeah, it was 2 months ago. I’ve just made the first month’s payment for my website and on my domain a few days ago, so I’ve only had a website for a month. It has definitely been a crazy, crazy experience.

 

Scott  

Yeah, it’s been a crazy ride and you’re still in the baby stages, sort of. Tell us about your personality. Who are you?

 

Chloe 

I am a grad student. I love education. I love to learn. I am very nerdy. I play a lot of video games. I play a lot of Dungeons and Dragons. Most of my friends are guys.

 

Scott  

It sounds like you’re not a typical girl. You’re kind of a nerdy person.

 

Chloe  

Yes, definitely. I mean, I like girly things. I like to dress up. I like fashion. I like all those typical things. I grew up with four brothers, so I spent my childhood hiding underneath their bed and playing their video games whenever they left. My brothers never really let me play video games. So, as soon as I moved away for college, one of the very first things I did is I bought a PlayStation and I really, really loved it. Most of my friends are guys who are engineers or work in software. We would play D&D together. That’s where I started to realize that there’s a disconnect between who they really are and how they represent themselves whenever they’re trying to date. There are guys who are hilarious, kind, considerate, physically attractive, successful and are a really good catch, but they really, really struggled with online dating. It wasn’t until I first saw one of their profiles that I was, like, “What? What are you doing?! This is terrible!” I realized that they didn’t know how to take good photos from good angles. They would consistently make themselves look several inches shorter and 20 pounds heavier. The bio’s on their dating profiles were just atrociously bad because they didn’t know how to appeal to women. So, I started helping them just as a friend and they got really good results. So, it became kind of a joke amongst us – every time they got a date because of me, they would give me a bag of Cape Cod chips.

 

Scott  

Because you really liked Cape Cod chips?

 

Chloe 

I really, really like Cape Cod chips so much – they’re the best chips in the world – I would always have a stockpile of them. So, I knew that I was good at it, but it was never really something that I would consider a career opportunity.

 

Scott  

Back then, when you were just helping your friends, you didn’t really look at this and said, “Hmm. Maybe, I can turn this into income someday.”

 

Chloe 

No, never, ever. It was just a fun thing that I love doing. I love human behavior. I love figuring out – it’s like a puzzle – how to represent them online in a way that is accurate and shows off their best features and, also, figuring out what women are looking for and what our approach should be and learning about the online dating platforms because online dating is not the same as in-person. It’s an entirely different thing.

 

Scott  

Oh, I’m sure. Yeah. I mean, that’s got to be a skill in itself – just figuring out the different platforms. So, that is a skill that you recognize that you had. Take us back to 2 months ago. What was your situation like and how did it change?

 

Chloe  

I had been a nanny for a few years for the same family while I was in university. The father had to move to Australia for a few months for work. Because it was summer, the mother decided to take the children and go with him, so I had no notice. I went from having a full-time job to having no job. I was given less than 24 hours’ notice that this was happening. I had a month’s worth of savings, which initially, like, made me feel pretty okay. Then, I realized very quickly that a month’s worth of savings is not enough to find a job, get a job, and then wait for the first paycheck. I very, very quickly reached a point where I had no money. I couldn’t pay my rent. I was 48 hours away from losing electricity. I had no groceries. I was using the food pantry to buy, like, very basic items because I had nothing and I was in a complete state of panic. I always had the option of leaving New York and going back home, but my family doesn’t have a lot of money, so I knew that they couldn’t help me – I didn’t even ask.

 

Scott  

That would have been a complete disruption.

 

Chloe

Yeah, I would lose my scholarship.

 

Scott

Yeah. Your whole life would change if you drop out of school, right?

 

Chloe 

Yeah. I would be dropping out of school. I would be losing my education. I would be losing everything that I’ve worked so hard for so long. So, it just wasn’t an option for me. I would rather be homeless and in school, than go back home – giving up was not an option. In the state of desperation, I Googled “How to make money online”. I was answering surveys for, like, 10 cents a pop. I tried websites where you can, like, type things for people, but it pays just 25 cents. Then, I found that Reddit – I had used Reddit in the past – has a few sub Reddits for people who are looking to make money quickly and are willing to work for very little pay. There was this subreddit called SlaveLabor. The purpose of SlaveLabor is for people who are broke or willing to work for very little to offer their services available at low prices.

 

Scott  

Just to explain to people a little bit in more detail, if you’ve never used Reddit, it’s a huge social media site with millions and millions of users. It’s made up of thousands of individual discussion groups – each of those is called a subreddit and has its own topic or theme. The one you’re talking about is called SlaveLabor – I hadn’t looked at it before. In that group. there would either be a job for somebody to do or an offer with somebody saying, “Hey, I can do this or that for you” So, it’s, kind of, like, Fiverr. In this subreddit, SlaveLabor, you are able to post something like what you are doing and say, “Hey, I can do this for you.” That’s what you did, right? You created your own post. What was your mindset during that time? I mean, you must have felt desperation.

 

Chloe  

I was in a complete state of panic. I had 33 cents in my bank account. I had already asked for an extension for my light bill – I was 48 hours from losing that extension. Once my power goes off, I knew that I was gonna lose my apartment. I was completely panicked. I was selling my belongings. It’s hard to think clearly when you’re in that state of mind because your brain is just in survival mode and is going off in 3,000 different directions.

 

Scott 

This was during the summertime, right? Did you still have some classes?

 

Chloe 

No, no, I wasn’t taking classes. So, I was able to work full time for anyone who would take me. The problem is I was in New York City, so there was a lot of competition. Most of what was available were labor. I am a petite female, so no one would hire me to lift heavy boxes.

 

Scott  

You don’t seem like the construction type of person.

 

Chloe 

Yeah, I would have done it if they paid me to, but no one was interested. I would do anything that anybody would let me do, but it’s very, very competitive. So, when I saw SlaveLabor, I was trying to figure out what I could offer. I was looking at the population of SlaveLabor – or Reddit in general – is primarily men aged between 18 to 35. So, I was like, “Okay. This is my demographic. What can I offer to them that people will buy?” That made me think of my friends. “Okay, these are mostly guys. Maybe they can use some dating advice.” So, I offered to give dating advice to guys for $5 an hour. I worked really hard on my presentation – made sure that I really express my personality and how I would make it fun – so that they wouldn’t think that I was this overlord judge or someone who was just going to tell them to be confident, and that I would be someone who can, like, actually give them helpful advice.

 

Scott  

It has to be practical…

 

Chloe  

Right. Since it was just $5, I thought that lots of people would take a shot on it. If I tried to charge more then people would be hesitant.

 

Scott 

Yeah. Because you’re an unknown factor at that point.

 

Chloe

Right.

 

Scott

Can you read the original post that you made?

 

Chloe 

Sure. I will make your dating profile diggity-dapper. $5

 

Do you have a dating profile that doesn’t get the results you had hoped it would? Do you post on r4r with little-to-no response?

 

Maybe it’s bad luck, maybe it’s the uneven playing field, but maybe you also kinda suck at this.

 

I am a human of the female variety, and I have noticed that some of my awesome guy friends really struggled with online dating because they didn’t know what the heck they were doing. They posted photos that weren’t flattering, their profiles were either long and winding, confusing, boring, or way too short.

 

I have helped several friends set up their dating profiles, helped them rewrite their r4rs, and edited their Tinder profiles. I’ve gotten pretty solid results and it was a lot of fun. I’m also pretty familiar with what most girls are looking for in a profile and the pitfalls to avoid. I can help you take photos that work for you, rewrite/edit your profile, give advice, or even walk you through your communication with a lady you’re into.

 

Scott  

What was your offered price to do this?

 

Chloe

It was $5.

 

Scott

What did they actually get for $5?

 

Chloe 

We would do an hour’s worth of phone call, Discord call, or Skype call. Honestly, it was generally a lot longer than an hour. So, I would charge them for an hour. But then, they would text me afterward, like, “Hey, can you approve these new photos?” or “Hey, can you do this or that?” I didn’t want to do it, but I wanted to be nice, so I did it. So, I was working for, like, 1.5 – 2.0 hours per client.

 

Scott 

Right. Of course, you didn’t anticipate what would happen because you had no idea what kind of response you would get, right?

 

Chloe 

Oh, my gosh. I had 200 – I mean, just dozens and dozens and dozens of responses. I was very quickly overwhelmed. I was able to buy groceries the next day. I was able to pay my rent a few days later. I was working for about 16 hours a day, but I was able to get myself out of this horrible situation that I was in. Then, I reposted and asked for $8. I think, 1-2 weeks later, I had even more DM’s and responses. I had previous clients who wrote really good reviews and posted them on my previous posts, so I had, like, this backup that said, “Hey, people are actually finding this service to be helpful.” So, that got even more people interested. Then, I reposted it again for $10. Then, I got even more clients. At the $10 mark, I was so overwhelmed by the number of messages that I was getting to the point that I just wasn’t capable of responding to them anymore – like, I couldn’t keep up and I couldn’t keep my schedule organized these because it was just too much. So, I looked into getting a website just because it would have, like, this automated scheduler that would allow people to schedule themselves in. Because I realized that I was spending hours and hours a day – like, 2 hours a day just – trying to schedule with clients, I went ahead and made the leap to get a website. Then, I got this automated scheduler. Then, I would just send clients there. After that, a friend suggested that I do an AMA, which is an “Ask Me Anything” on Reddit. It’s where you make a post, tell people your story, and then invite them to ask you anything. I didn’t really think anything would come out of it, so I posted my story, “Hey, I went from being on the brink of losing my electricity in my apartment to becoming a small business owner in a month. Ask me anything.” That just completely blew up! I was expecting a couple of questions, but I think it almost had, like, 19,000 upvotes or something ridiculous.

 

Scott  

Yeah, it was a lot. You would get way more responses than what you expected from your posts. So, your situation went from night to day very, very quickly…

 

Chloe  

Very, very quickly.

 

Scott 

From that point, did you, kind of, branch out and start offering other services? Or did you just continue to increase your hourly rate?

 

Chloe 

I increased my hourly rate and, then, I expanded my services. So, after our session, guys would want occasional help through texts. They would want me to approve photos. They would send me a screenshot of a dating profile and say, “I’m not sure what to say to her.” I didn’t want to tell them ‘No’, but I also couldn’t keep doing it for free, especially since I have hundreds and hundreds of clients now instead of 20. So, I started offering additional options.

 

I started this thing called the ‘Pocket Chloe’, which is basically me in their pocket for a week, available from 9 AM until 11:59 PM EST, where they could text me at any time for any reason and I would help them. So, if they were talking to a girl and had no idea what to say, they could show me a screenshot of the conversation and I would help them. If they were preparing for a date and got panic, then I would help them. If they felt lost or stuck in any way, they would have me as their backup to support them, give them advice, help them get through it, and approve their new photos. A lot of what I did was helping guys take better photos for their dating profiles. So, I started to offer that in the week-long service.

 

Then, I broadened out the services that I offered. Now, I offer a “Profile Overhaul”, which is an hour-long call focused specifically on fixing up your profile. I’ll go over your photos and tell you what’s working and what isn’t. I’ll give you really specific instructions for new photos to take. Then, we’ll rewrite your whole bio. I’ll explain why your bio wasn’t working, why this new one should do better, and explain the process. Afterward, you can, kind of, continue on by yourself.

 

Then, I also offer something called “Ladies Galore”, which is where we focus on matches. Once your profile is done, you’re going to start getting matches. That’s really when online dating gets tough because there is a lot of competition – she’s talking to a minimum of 15-20 other guys – so getting her to respond to you can be really difficult. I teach them how to write a compelling message, how to figure out what she’s interested in, and talk to her about it, when you can ask her out on a date, how to ask her out quickly but not too quickly, and what to do and what not to do on a first date.

 

Then, I offer something called “Twitterpated”, which is teaching guys how to approach and have chemistry with girls whom they’ve met in person, whom they really like, whom they don’t know how to approach or ask her out, and whom they don’t have the courage to approach in a bar or in a coffee shop – in a pretty low-risk way.

 

Then, I offer a package called “Whole Shebang”, which is just a 2-in-1. So, instead of buying 2 separate packages, you can have them in one call – so, it’s a 2-hour call – and then have a $5 discount. So, I’ve broadened them up a bit, but it is essentially the same thing – I’m still focusing on dating advice.

 

Scott 

This is part of what amazes me – you have no past business experience. I don’t know if you’ve ever written an ad copy or have done any marketing work previously. To come up with these things where they can text you for a week and you can help them – you named it “Pocket Chloe” – is just so clever. I think part of your success is that you’re just doing those kinds of things – creating new products – by instinct. You have a really good instinct for naming things and what is needed. I love it. You’re kind of an entrepreneur by nature as well and that is perfect because you can fit it around your schedule. It took us a while – a few weeks – to be able to connect and figure out when we can have this conversation because you were booked up so far in advance. It’s pretty amazing. Are you busier now than you want to be?

 

Chloe 

Now, it’s a little bit more under control. I finally reached the point where I felt safe enough to give myself days off. I really wanted to have my savings back. I wanted to have three months of savings. I wanted to know that I would be okay if anything went wrong. Before this started, I realized that one month of savings is not enough, so I wanted to have, at least, 3 months’ worth of food, rent, electricity, and internet covered. I work 70 hours a week for a month and then I gave myself 2 days a week off. I’m now getting to a point where next week is totally blocked off. I didn’t have any appointments on those days – I blocked those days off a while ago – but I was already so booked up that client had already scheduled appointments on my days off. So, obviously, I’m not going to cancel those appointments. So, it’s a lot better now. I’m working for, like, 50 hours a week, plus 1 extra hour a day to do all the paperwork and research. I’m still learning how to run a business. I’m having business meetings about LLCs, sole proprietorship, taxes, and all of those things. Now, I’m researching how to advertise. I’m going to be advertising on imager and on Facebook and figuring out how to do that in an economical way. I’m definitely learning. I have never taken a business class in my life. All of my classes were psychology-related or anthropology-related – they’re all about human behavior and culture. So, I’m staying really busy, but I no longer feel completely overwhelmed – I definitely did for a while.

 

Scott  

If you think about it, most people that start a business would have a big investment first, which you really didn’t have. They would invest a lot of money in either a storefront, a complex website, advertising, or whatever, but you didn’t have any of that. Very commonly, as a new business, you would just sit there waiting for the phone to ring and hoping for a new client. For you, it’s like you’re at the bottom of the mountain, and the avalanche of all the clients are coming toward you. So yeah, that’s a good position to be in. But you’re right, you got to have some balance. You can’t work 70 hours a week forever.

 

Chloe 

Right. I have my days off now. My days off are for days when I’m in class. I’m working a few hours now, which is nice. I’m consistently staying booked out for, like, 2 weeks, which is a really nice place to be in – I can keep that going. I’m learning how to advertise and learning how to reach the population that I’m trying to reach. I’m really excited because I have a lot of repeat customers and a lot of clients who would recommend me to their friends. So, that’s really, really helping. I want to have a balance of wanting to have some time off, but also not wanting to get too complacent and wake up one day with not enough clients to pay my rent.

 

Scott 

Right. That’s the scary position to be in. Again, you don’t want to be back in that. Let’s talk about some of the actual consulting calls. Do some guys don’t really want advice and just want to talk to you?

 

Chloe 

That happens occasionally. Occasionally, I get someone who’s super creepy – people who like to show me their penis. That happened a few times. I just end the call. It’s not really nearly as common as you would think. Most of my clients are just ordinary, normal, average guys who are frustrated, because they don’t understand why they can’t meet someone, they don’t understand why they can’t have this relationship, and they don’t understand where they’re going wrong. I really thought I would get more creepers. I really thought I would get more people who were inappropriate, but it just doesn’t really happen very often. I mean, I think it happened five times.

 

Scott 

Yeah, that’s a very small percentage. That’s good.

 

Chloe 

Yeah, for sure. I have some guys who, like, flirt or hit on me a little bit, but I always turn it into a learning opportunity. So, if someone hits on me, I would tell them, “Okay, this isn’t great. This is how you can do it better with the girl that you’re trying to date.” So, I would turn it into “Okay, let me show you how to hit on people in a better way” and explain that, like, “In a professional setting, this wouldn’t really work.” So, I would, kind of, act oblivious and focus on how to help them in their game with other women. They usually take it pretty well – they laugh. I tried to keep this mix of being friendly, being nice, and not sounding like I’m, kind of, standing above them.

 

Scott 

That’s really the only way to do it. Otherwise, they would feel humiliated and rejected and, then, that’s a no-win for anybody.

 

Chloe 

It’s a super vulnerable position to be in. You’re talking to a complete stranger on the internet. You’re showing her your photos. You’re showing her your profile/bio and talking about things that are really hard to talk about. So, the only way that it would work is if they feel like they can trust me and they feel like I don’t think that I’m better than they are or that they’re stupid. I get that it’s hard for guys. It is just kind of unfair. Guys are at a distinct disadvantage with online dating. A lot of guys don’t really know how to appeal to women. A lot of guys don’t understand how unique these dating platforms are. You’re just kinda screwed. Like, it’s really, really, really hard. So, I would definitely approach it from a practical standpoint.

 

Scott  

Do you have an example of someone who you just weren’t able to help at all?

 

Chloe  

The only times I haven’t been able to help someone is whenever I’ve ended the call because they were inappropriate and I was not willing to help them. Like, I’ve had a client who was married and trying to cheat on his wife, so I just refunded him and refused to help. I just don’t feel comfortable with that. I’ve had clients who were just egregiously hitting on me – that made me feel uncomfortable – or showed me their photos of their penis. I think that there’s this perception that online dating only works if you’re really, really attractive. It’s true that there will always be some guy who’s more attractive than you. If you’re trying to match with a girl, she definitely has options of other guys who are more successful, more attractive, or have more money than you or whatever else. If she has 150 matches, you’re never going to be the most attractive guy, but that doesn’t mean that online dating won’t work for you. Online dating is about charming the hell out of her really, really quickly, connecting with her in, like, a human-to-human way, and then getting her off of this website. As soon as you get her off of the website, then it’s a much more even playing field. When she’s off the website, girls will consistently ignore the hotter guy for the guy who understands them, they will consistently ignore the guy with more money for the guy who listens and can connect with. So, I teach guys how to connect with women on a more personal level, how to express interest and their interests, how to understand what she’s looking for, and then show her that you want to give it to her, whereas most guys will just send the same copied and pasted message over and over and over again. We would get really sick of hearing it. So, most guys can do online dating, as long as they’re willing to, like, learn a few skills.

 

Scott 

All right. Well, I hope guys listen to this. That’s some gold nuggets of advice right there. As far as the odds, when girls look at 150 profiles, there’s always going to be somebody that makes more money or is better looking or whatever than you are, so you’ve got to somehow change that. So, there’s more to what they’re looking at. As you said, get them off of that platform, get them off the computer, and that’s when you can really turn on the charm, so to speak, right?

 

Chloe  

Well, you have to charm them on the platform first – that’s where you get them off of it. I mean, if I have to choose between talking to a super hot guy or to a guy who is having a conversation with me about my favorite things in the world, I’m going to talk to the guy that I like talking to. I still want to be attracted to him, but I don’t have to be more attracted to him than I am to anyone else. For women, attraction isn’t just physical. Like, I want to talk to someone who I’m going to have a good time with. I want to talk to someone who gets me, who wants to get me, and who has the same interest as me. That’s what’s gonna get me to go out on a date with you – not the super hot guy who’s going to talk about himself for 2 hours.

 

Scott 

Right. What’s your goal for this business? I mean, this isn’t something you want to do for the rest of your life, right?

 

Chloe  

I want to be a psychologist. I want to work with children – that is my goal – but having this as something I can do from home for a few years until I have my PhD is definitely my, kind of, daydream goal. So, I can work from home in my pajamas. I can do homework in between clients. I can set my own hours. I don’t have to pay to send my dog to doggy daycare.

 

Scott 

It’s like the ideal part-time job, right?

 

Chloe  

It’s definitely not part-time, it’s definitely full-time, but I love it so much. I love connecting with people. I love getting those messages a few days later that they have their first date in a long time. It’s so exciting to me. It’s so rewarding for me. I had a client really late last night – way later than I usually work – because he really, like, wanted to be seen because he was going on his first date in a really long time. He was so excited and so nervous – I could tell just hearing the excitement in his voice. He trusted me to, kind of, calm him down and say, like, “Let’s focus on staying cool, staying calm. She wouldn’t have agreed to go out with you if she was into you.” In our first call, he was really struggling with self-esteem and didn’t think that online dating was for him. He thought that there was no way that this is going to happen to someone who’s super stoked for his first date in several months. It’s an incredible experience. I absolutely love it.

 

Scott 

Yeah. I can see there would be a lot of rewards on that. Where do you see yourself 10 years from now? I mean, what’s your long-term career plan?

 

Chloe 

Hopefully, I will be a psychologist. I’m interested in working with underprivileged children who’ve experienced complex trauma.

 

Scott  

Let me stop you right there for a second because I’m confused about that. I want to ask you about that. Underprivileged children who have been through complex trauma – is that what you said? What does that mean? What would be a situation that would be an example of that?

 

Chloe 

Complex trauma is trauma that has different sources. There are lots of different types of trauma. There’s sexual trauma. There’s physical trauma. There’s educational neglect. There’s medical neglect. There’s malnutrition. There’s physical, emotional, and verbal abuse. Complex trauma is whenever a child has experienced several types of trauma at once. Complex trauma is something that can really impact the brain development of a child. Whenever an adult experiences trauma, it can definitely cause a lot of problems. It can cause PTSD. It can really affect your life in a profound way. For children, it can change how their brain develops, so it can have a much more long-lasting impact on their lives. Unfortunately, children who are living in poverty don’t have a lot of access to counseling, they don’t have a lot of access to professionals who are able to help them repair that damage or prevent that damage from happening before it becomes long-lasting. So, I’m really, really interested in working with kids who have had complex trauma because if these issues go unresolved – if they never experienced healing, if they don’t learn the tools that they need in order to cope, if we can’t teach their parents the tools to help their children cope – it’s going to impact them in a pretty major way for the rest of their lives in ways that can’t really be fixed. We can’t change how our brain develops. So, I’m very, very interested in brain development. I’m very, very interested in human behavior and trauma.

 

Scott  

That sounds really interesting. When you talk about long-term rewards from your work – to be able to see a child who has been through something like that and see that person grow into an adult who is psychologically healthy – that’s got to be a great reward too, or will be.

 

Chloe

Indeed.

 

Scott

I have to ask you this. Before we hit the record button here, you had mentioned that you have been approached to be on other podcasts or media shows – TV shows, radio shows, or whatever – but you have rejected most of them. This is the first one you’ve appeared on. What was your reasoning behind that?

 

Chloe  

It was very flattering to be asked to do interviews for, like, a documentary with Netflix or the Bachelorette. It was very flattering. It was just so much, and it’s like a huge, huge long-term commitment. If my face is on Netflix, if I am advertising myself to the world that this is what I do, then that means I have to be, kind of, committed to it long term. I’m worried about someone Googling my name and finding dating advice instead of the fact that I’m really interested in complex trauma. I really enjoy this work, but it’s not something I want to do forever. So if I were to agree to commit to something that’s pretty global like Netflix, then it would be for something that I want to do forever or, at least, something that I’m comfortable being associated with forever. It has only been two months. I’m definitely learning as I’m going. I’m still at the stage where I’m equally terrified and excited. I’m reading business books and totally fall asleep at night. I’m definitely not at a point where I’m prepared to make that big of a commitment.

 

Scott 

I can see how those things would be a whole different scope – or what they would be talking about – for those shows. Basically, I’m just fascinated with the way you went from literally having nothing and about to lose your apartment to turning that around so quickly. That’s what I find amazing about this whole story.

 

Chloe  

Yeah. I mean, I researched you as well. Like, I listened to your podcast and you seem like a really decent human being. It didn’t seem predatory in any way. You seem like someone that I would enjoy talking to. And it’s a podcast – it’s not going to show up on Netflix. I mean, I’m not trying to say that you weren’t Netflix-worthy.

 

Scott  

No, I understand. I don’t have any anticipation to be on Netflix for this show. We’ll see.

 

Chloe  

So, there was a lower risk for me and you seemed like a genuinely good person. So, that made me feel a lot more comfortable.

 

Scott  

That’s good. That’s a great compliment. Thank you very much. Well, Chloe, it’s been great talking with you. I love seeing what you’ve done and what you’ve created virtually out of nothing. It’s going to be fun to see where this goes.

 

Chloe  

Yeah, me too. I’m very excited to see where this goes. Thank you so much for talking to me. It’s been great.

 

Scott 

Thanks for listening. My goal for each episode is to bring you people and stories that you just won’t find on other podcasts. If you’d like to discuss this episode or previous episodes with other listeners, you can do that at our private Facebook group at WhatWasThatLike.com/facebook. I hope to see you in there! And if you’d like to support the show, you can do that at WhatWasThatLike.com/support. And I’ll see you in two weeks, when we’ll once again be asking the question, What Was That Like?