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Ramon faked his own death

If you’re married, you know that there will inevitably be some disagreements between you and your spouse.

Could be about the most common things, like finances. Or sometimes you might have a big fight about something really minor, like choosing a restaurant.

Usually, these things get resolved. Reasonable adults can figure out a solution or a compromise, and life goes on.

For Ramon, that’s not how it worked out. He and his wife Lulu had gotten to the point where their marriage could not be saved, and a divorce was coming up. But then Lulu decided to take things to a whole new level, and hire someone to murder Ramon. That’s when things got a little crazy.

This is a Flashback episode. Ramon told this story 5 years ago here on the podcast, so after our conversation you’ll hear a chat the he and I had just recently about what he’s doing today, and the latest news about Lulu.

Ramon today
Ramon today

 

Ramon's book
Ramon’s book

 

Ramon’s book:

https://www.amazon.com/I-Walked-My-Own-Grave/dp/0578217651/ref=sr_1_1

 

Ramon interview on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afxOgtRFJWw

 

Ramon on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/therealramonsosa

 

Full show notes and pictures for this episode are here:

https://WhatWasThatLike.com/180

 

Graphics for this episode by Bob Bretz. Transcription was done by James Lai.

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Episode transcript (download transcript PDF):

If you’re married, you know that there will inevitably be some disagreements between you and your spouse.

 

Could be about the most common things, like finances. Or sometimes you might have a big fight about something really minor, like choosing a restaurant.

 

Usually, these things get resolved. Reasonable adults can figure out a solution or a compromise, and life goes on.

 

For Ramon, that’s not how it worked out. He and his wife Lulu had gotten to the point where their marriage could not be saved, and a divorce was coming up. But then Lulu decided to take things to a whole new level, and hire someone to murder Ramon. That’s when things got a little crazy.

 

This is a Flashback episode. Ramon told this story 5 years ago here on the podcast, so after our conversation you’ll hear a chat that he and I had just recently about what he’s doing today, and the latest news about Lulu.

 

Scott 

On a scale of 1-10, how weird is the feeling of lying down in your own grave?

 

Ramon 

It’s an 11 – it was the craziest thing ever. When the detectives came up to me and said, “We have one more thing we have to do to go through this whole case.” It was to put me in a grave with a bullet wound in my head. I just cannot believe what I was hearing.

 

Scott 

That is just unbelievable! All right. Well, let’s talk about how you got to that point. You came from Puerto Rico and you opened a gym in Houston, correct?

 

Ramon 

Yeah, I was born in Puerto Rico. I resided in the United States and lived on the East Coast for a while. I moved to Texas as a teenager and have been boxing since I was about 8 years old. Boxing has been my life – I love boxing. I competed in a lot of amateur fights. I turned pro when I was 17. Things didn’t go my way because I had the wrong kind of management. I’m still going to be involved with boxing, so I decided to open up a gym and coach, and it started from there. Up to this day, I still love boxing.

 

Scott

Yeah. Obviously, you have a real passion for that.

 

Ramon

Correct.

 

Scott

Two people came into your life – let’s talk a little bit about each one of these people. First of all, Mundo, in 2005 – can you tell us about him?

 

Ramon  

Yeah. I think Mundo actually came up a little earlier than that. Mundo came into my life when I had a gym but it wasn’t my gym – I was helping out at a gym where I had my nonprofit – it was a church. Back then, I had – I still have it – a nonprofit called Young Prospects Boxing. Mundo just happened to walk into my gym. He was a young man in his early 20s and a little bit overweight. He just seemed very honest to me. He told me that he just wanted to learn how to box. He loved boxing but he didn’t have the opportunity to do it when he was young. He said, “I don’t want to compete. I’m just a little too old to compete, but I want to learn how to box.” He was very odd. He told me all about his background and we just, kind of, hooked in. He was beginning to be, like, a part of my family. I had 2 sons and a daughter, so he was part of that too – he became my 3rd son.

 

Scott 

Then, the other person that came into your life was Lulu. What’s her actual name?

 

Ramon 

Her real name is Maria DeLourdes Durantes – that’s her main name – and she goes by ‘Lulu.’ I met her in 2007. Back then, I was divorced for about 7-8 years. I went out. I wanted to go have some drinks and hang out for a little while, so I went to a Mexican restaurant that turns into, basically, a club after 10 or 11 in Woodlands, Texas – I think it was. So, I went there just to hang out. Salsa music – that’s the stuff that I like. That’s where I met her. She was there. We met, we were visually attracted to each other, and then we danced the night away.

 

Scott 

That was a pretty quick romance. How long before you got married?

 

Ramon  

We got married about a year and a half later – we dated for about a year and a half. We got to meet each other’s families. She came from Mexico City. I think her son, Louise, was maybe 12-13 years old. Her daughter, Carla, was maybe 6-8 years old. So, she had 2 kids and I had 3 kids from previous marriages. So, we dated for about a year and a half before we decided to get married.

 

Scott  

So it suddenly became a pretty big family…

 

Ramon 

Yeah, it did. In the beginning, it was a little bit rough trying to merge our families together because, at that age, kids seem to be jealous of their parents and stuff like that. My kids were a little older than hers, so they were okay – they understood. Getting along with her son was a little tough, sometimes, because that’s his mother and he was a little bit jealous of another man coming around.

 

Scott 

Yeah, that’s understandable. How long before things started to go south with the marriage?

 

Ramon 

We were doing well at the beginning of the marriage – the first 3 years were, like, what they call the honeymoon years. It was excellent. She treated me like a king. We talked about massages –  foot massages. She got up early in the morning before I even got out of bed and I had breakfast already made for me. She was just a wonderful person who treated me like a king. I was so grateful for marrying this person. I was in love – I thought it was love.

 

Scott 

And the gym was doing pretty well too, right? You’re making pretty good money?

 

Ramon 

Yeah, we decided to open a gym around about 2009 or 2010. We opened up a big gym and it was doing very, very well with me and my boxing background. Lulu was very, very savvy with business. She basically took care of the business side of it and took care of the training. Later on, she decided to start training people too. In the beginning, it worked out and it was doing very, very well, and it did well for a long time.

 

Scott 

Yeah, that sounds like a perfect partnership with each of your skills combined together

 

Ramon  

Exactly. That’s what I thought I had. The money was coming in. We were doing very well and the gym was doing very well. So, I thought everything was great for a while.

 

Scott 

But then, it wasn’t so great.

 

Ramon

We had our differences sometimes and, I think, it all started with the kids – especially with her son. The young man actually thought that he was the man of the house. I tried to sit there and talk to him. I explained to him that there can only be one man in this house and that I’m the one who pays the bills, puts clothes on his back, and food in his stomach. It was just tough. I think it all started from having problems with the kids. Then, he started getting jealous of my kids because my kids are educated and they do well for themselves. There was jealousy between her kids and my kids – I think it started with that. That was our biggest problem at the beginning.

 

Scott 

Sounds like a lot of different dynamics happening at the same time.

 

Ramon

Yeah, it was.

 

Scott

And then, at some point, there were accusations of abuse. How did that come about?

 

Ramon 

Yeah. Well, this is a little background on her… When Lulu came to this country – she was here on an American visa – she got married to me. Then, she automatically got a residency. She applied for US citizenship. About 3 years later, she, her kids, & her mother became American citizens. So, they all became American citizens illegally in this country because of me. Then, right after she got all that, I noticed that she started showing her temper – I know she had a little temper all the time, but she started changing a little more – and we started having more and more arguments. We went on a vacation to Puerto Rico one time. We had a disagreement in Puerto Rico at the hotel to the point where we had to get separated. That night, she slept in one room while I slept in separate rooms. I had no idea that she had filed a report – not a police report – at the hotel. She put on there that I had scratched her – that was the first. I would never put a hand on her ever, EVER. She had scratches on her fingers, and I was thinking, “What?!” That’s when I figured that something was going on, but we were able to resolve that problem and talk through it. One thing about Lulu is she knows how to manipulate people – she is a good manipulator. She knows how to use her beauty and charm to get whatever she wants, kind of, like a psychopath – that’s what I felt, like, she was trying to do to me.

 

Scott 

When you saw that report where she was making these accusations that obviously weren’t true, you must have thought, “Man, do I really know who this person is?”

 

Ramon  

Yeah. Until this day, she still claims and swears that I did that to her, and it was investigated. Then, she tried to tell me that she didn’t call the police in Puerto Rico although the hotel security came up to the room and talked to me. We told them what had happened – we just had a disagreement. She knew how to push buttons. She knew exactly what buttons to push to get me involved in a disagreement. It always started with her talking crazy stuff about my kids. So I’m like, “Look, just be respectful.” That’s all I asked. When the hotel security came up, they talked to her outside. Then, some came inside and talked to me, and not one of them. If you have scratches or bleeding, they would say, “Look, she has scratches or she’s bleeding.” None of them mentioned that to me because they knew that it wasn’t true. But then, when I saw that on the report, I’m like, “Whoa, what are you talking about?! She’s up to something.”

 

Scott 

Yeah. So, it ended up that you guys finally decided you were going to get a divorce…

 

Ramon 

Yeah, it got to that point. In 2015, she filed for divorce – I was okay with that. We tried to go to counseling before that and do different things but she just didn’t want to do it. She said, “This is not gonna work out.” But in the divorce, she wanted everything – she wanted the house, she wanted the business, she wanted the car, she wanted everything… I know, sometimes, a lot of men walk away, leave everything, and just start over again, but I feel like I worked too hard for everything I have – the gym, the business, and everything was just too much work. So, I said, “Let’s go half” and she tried to fight it. When it got to the point where we couldn’t live together – we had a two-story home – she was living upstairs with her mother and her two kids, and I was living downstairs by myself. There was so much tension – it was just a bad and horrible thing.

 

Scott 

Now, how does that work in terms of citizenship? Even if you guys get divorced, she’d still remain a US citizen, right?

 

Ramon 

Oh, yeah. She is an American citizen. She has all the rights just like you and me – along with her kids and her mother – and until this day, I have not gotten one “Thank you.”

 

Scott 

I don’t think you’ll get that.

 

Ramon 

No, I don’t think so. I don’t expect it as it is. They’re lucky to be here because of me. It’s even more incredible that they try to kill me afterward.

 

Scott 

Alright. One day, there was a conversation in the gym, I think, was with Lulu, her daughter, your protege, or your son, Mundo. What was that about?

 

Ramon 

Yeah, it was crazy. Mundo would take care of the gym for me, especially on the weekends – we take breaks on Saturday. He had the key to open and close the gym. So, other than Lulu and me, he could come in and go whenever he feels like it – that’s how much trust I have in him. Mundo already knew that we were going through a divorce – I talked to him and he knew what was going on. On one particular night, I was there at the gym. What he told me is that he walked into a conversation between Lulu and her daughter, Carla. In that conversation, Carla told Lulu that there was a kid in the gym from Mexico. That kid told Carla that he has an uncle in Mexico who kills and chops up people for a living. That’s when Mundo walked into the conversation and told them, “Hey, watch what you’re talking about. You never know who’s listening.” They kind of laughed it off like it was nothing and not a big deal. Then, later that evening. he said that he kind of pulled Lulu to the side, one-on-one, when there was hardly anybody in the gym and they were about to close. Mundo was a young man and I helped him when he was going through a lot of problems. We just mentor him, basically, with a lot of stuff. And she knew his background.

 

Scott 

His background meant that he knew people that could do stuff.

 

Ramon 

Yeah. When he was younger, he was involved in gangs and stuff like that. But he was a young man who became a great person. So, I guess that’s why she trusted him when Mundo came up to her and said, “This is about Ramon?” She said, “Yeah, it is about him. I wish they would take him. I wish he would just go away. He should just disappear.” Then, he made the pistol sign over his shoulder and said, “Disappear like this?” He put the pistol on his shoulder.

 

Scott 

You mean with his fingers?

 

Ramon 

Yeah. He just put up two fingers and a thumb, like, the sign of a pistol. Then, she said, “Yeah. Like that.” That’s when this young man made a decision – that is the reason I’m talking to you right now. Right there, he said, “Well, I got people who can do the job for you.” She believed him. Then, Mundo called me the next day – I remember that I was driving. Mundo likes to joke around sometimes – we joked around and stuff like that. When he called me and told me that, I told him, “Mundo, quit joking around, quit messing around. I don’t believe that kind of stuff.” He went, “Look. I’ve seen the look on people’s faces when they want to kill somebody. She’s for real.” Then, he said that he was gonna meet her later that evening, have a conversation, and record the conversation on his phone – she had no idea what was going on. That’s when it all started.

 

Scott 

I just can’t imagine. I mean, she knew about your relationship with Mundo – you are like a father to him. How could she have such a bad misjudgment of his character to think that he would be involved in this?

 

Ramon 

Yeah, it was just the worst situation. There were so many thoughts that went through my head, like, “Why did she believe him? Why did she think that he would do something like that?” When Mundo reacted the way he reacted by telling her, “I got the people that can do the job.” I guess that she was so desperate to, like, get it done. So, that’s where it all started.

 

Scott 

It must have taken you a little bit of time just to process the thought of, “Wow, she really wants to do this.”

 

Ramon 

Yeah, not only that. After hearing that, I had to go home, see her face, and act like I didn’t know what was going on – that was the weirdest feeling. She was sleeping upstairs and I was downstairs. So, basically, I was sleeping with the enemy in my own house – I was sleeping with one eye open after I found out what was going on.

 

Scott 

So, what was the plan that you came up with?

 

Ramon

Actually, Mundo is the one who came up with a plan. He said, “Some of us will have conversations with her. So I’m gonna go out there, talk to her, and record everything until we have enough evidence. We got to the point where Mundo asked for money for a dirty gun – they call it a street gun or whatever. He said that it was going to be $200, and she gave him the money. Once Mundo had the money, we felt like we had enough evidence. So, we went to the police. In the beginning, they didn’t believe us. I mean, they believed but, in the precinct where I lived, they had never dealt with anything like this. So, they talked to Mundo and me together. Then, they separated us to make sure both of our stories were the same. Shortly after that, they called in the state police, the FBI, the rangers, and they put a plan together – that’s where it all started with them – then, they took over. They brought in undercover police officers to start meeting with Lulu, and this undercover officer was one of the hitmen that Mundo had told Lulu about who was going to do the job. So, she thought that this man whom she was talking to was the guy that Mundo got for her. She had no idea that he was an undercover officer.

 

Scott 

He was a policeman. Can you talk a little bit about why was it difficult for Mundo to go through with this plan?

 

Ramon 

Like I said earlier, Mundo was a young man who was involved with gangs. Once he joins a gang and tries to leave it, you’re in the game for life. In the gang life, you don’t snitch on anybody, you don’t talk about that kind of stuff, and they take that at heart – that was the biggest problem that he had. He told me straight up that this is something that he did for me because, in his life, that’s the kind of stuff they don’t do – he felt like that was something that he had to do to save my life. So, he said he felt like if he didn’t take that chance of doing what he did, maybe she would have asked somebody else – I didn’t know if she had a plan B. So, even though we were doing this, I didn’t know if it was just Mundo and his plan or if she had talked to somebody else just in case that didn’t work – it was very hectic.

 

Scott 

Yeah, if it didn’t work out with him, obviously, she would have tried finding somebody else like this other kid whose uncle–

 

Ramon

Yeah, exactly.

 

Scott

So how did that play out? She paid money. What happened after that?

 

Ramon 

There were 2 hitmen that Mundo had told her about. They met with her and Mundo. I told the officers, “Look, you need to keep Mundo in the loop because as soon as she finds out that Mundo’s out, she’s gonna start noticing something.” So, Mundo would always meet with them also at the same time. They met the undercover officers with the car, lights, and audio, so they think they had everything. On this particular evening, they told her, “Look, we’re ready to do the hit, and it’s gonna cost you $12,000.” She said, “Well, I don’t have all the money right now, but I will give you some money and some jewelry.” I came to find out that the jewelry that she gave them was my jewelry – wedding rings, watches, my own stuff. She gave them as a down payment to have me killed. Then, she went to the bank, got some money out, and gave him some cash. Then, she said, “I’ll tell you what. He likes wearing really nice watches – he’s always wearing it. So, when you kill him, you can keep that watch too because it’s worth a lot of money.” Then, another thing that she said was, “As soon as he dies, I’m going to get his pension, I’m going to get all his retirement, and I’m gonna get all his money. With that money, I can pay you the rest.” So, she had it all planned out.

 

Scott 

Yeah, she had obviously put a lot of thought into how everything is going to work out.

 

Ramon 

Yeah. She knew exactly how much I was worth. At one point, they even asked her to see if she really, really wanted to go through it and to give her one last chance to get out of it. They asked her, “Do you want us to beat him up? We can beat him up.” She said, “No, he’s better to me dead. I want him dead.”

 

Scott 

Yeah, beating you up really wouldn’t do anything.

 

Ramon 

No. We were still going through a divorce. So, she wanted to make sure that they kill me before – I think it was August or September – we finalize our divorce. This was at, like, the end of July. She told them, “Look, you need to finish this before the divorce is finalized because if he dies after the divorce is finalized, I don’t get anything – he’ll give it to his kids and I won’t get anything.” She was worried about my kids getting all the money and she not getting anything.

 

Scott 

This sounds like a woman without any feeling or empathy.

 

Ramon 

No. She was thinking about nobody but herself – she didn’t think about her family, her kids, anything. All she wanted was, “I want to get this divorce.” She felt that things were going her way. Her attorney thought they were going her way. Apparently, she didn’t think that things were going her way, so I guess that’s what made her go, “What do I have to do to take this man out? The only way that it’s gonna happen is like this.”

 

Scott 

So, after she paid that and gave the final order, that’s when you and the cops went into Hollywood mode.

 

Ramon 

Yeah. After she gave the money and all the jewelry to them, they had enough evidence to have her arrested and I thought that was gonna be it. Then, they called me in. They said, “Ramon, we need to talk to you.” I said, “Okay.” I was used to going in there and talking to them about this whole process. When they took me in there – I remember it was, kind of, scary because they brought me in there at night like this – the officers from the FBI and the local constables were all there in, like, a meeting room. They explained to us and said, “Look, we have enough evidence to arrest Lulu right now, but we just don’t want to take any chances. If we go to a jury trial, some of these jurors may have sympathy for her because she’s a single mother, she’s never been in problems, and a lot of people in the community know her – from the boxing gym and stuff like that. So, they might feel sorry for her. So, what they wanted to do was to make it a slam dunk case – this thing is gonna be 100%. So, what they wanted to do was take a picture of me dead and show it to her. I was like, “What did you say?! Dead?!” He said, “Yeah, we’re going to have a picture of you dead, we’re going to put you in a grave, and we’re going to show you the picture to prove that the job was done.” So, they pulled out real pictures – I’ll never forget that. The DA and Assistant DA were there. They pulled out pictures of real dead people with bullet wounds to the head and they said, “Okay, we’re going to pick this one right here. This is what we’re gonna do.” The next day, they said, “Well, this is going to happen. We’re going to disappear you for 3 days.” So, nobody knew where I was – Mundo and my family had no idea what was going on.

 

Scott 

Where were you for those 3 days?

 

Ramon 

They took me out of town to a hotel – it wasn’t that far from the south of Houston.

 

Scott

Where nobody would see you or anything…

 

Ramon 

Nobody knew. Nobody had any idea. They took me out. I had to meet this officer in the middle of the night and they had everything set up. I have no idea what was going on. They said, “Now, we’re gonna put this makeup on you.” Before that, they took a picture. Then, they took me to this gravesite. At the gravesite, they had already dug up the hole. I swear it looked like something you see in one of these movies from, like, Scarface or something – it was just a horrible-looking thing. It was like a scene from a movie. All these cameras and all these people were there. Then, they said, “Okay, we’re gonna get you down to your underwear, finish up the makeup, and put you in a position like this. Close your eyes. We’re gonna put some dirt on you.” Then, they took what seemed like a thousand pictures.

 

Scott 

How did they do the makeup?

 

Ramon 

Oh, my goodness, that’s another thing. I thought these guys knew what they were doing. There were these 2 officers/constables. They went in there and – they had this little kit – they started putting some stuff on – it looked like something that some kids do for Halloween. So I said, “Man, this is not gonna work.” I came to find out that they had learned on Youtube about how to put bullet wounds on their head for whatever reasons – for Halloween or whatever. When it came out, I said, “Man, let me tell you something. She’s not going to go for this, man. I know Lulu. She knows how to do Photoshop – she likes that kind of stuff – and messing with pictures. She’s not going to go for this. Here’s what we have to do.” Sure enough, they did it. This is where it gets crazy – the undercover officers took the pictures to her, told her that they have finished the job, and showed her the picture of me, supposedly, dead with a bullet wound at the side of my forehead. The first question that she asked the officer was, “He’s not getting up, right?” And they started laughing – that hurts so much. I mean, when I saw that video, I was like, “Did she just say ‘he’s not getting up’ and started laughing?” She thought that, literally, she had just hit the lotto when she saw that picture.

 

Scott 

Of course, she had no reason to believe that it was fake – she didn’t have any reason to suspect it. Obviously, she really wanted badly to believe that it was true.

 

Ramon 

She had so many people manipulated by telling lies about me that I was a drunk, that I was abusive, and that I had hit her kids – they had filed false police reports on me. I mean, I was just the worst man that there could be. So, she already had made people believe, “He’s not what people think.” So, when I ‘died’, they’re like, “Oh, he deserved it.” That’s the type of person that she was. She had a lot of people believing bad things about me, but it was all a lie. The whole time, I had to be quiet, I had to bite my tongue, I couldn’t say anything, although I already knew what was going on with the murder-for-hire.

 

Scott 

So, they showed her that picture. In her mind, she finalized the deal and it was all done. Then, from that point, you were missing for three days?

 

Ramon 

I had been missing after that. After they took a picture of me, they took me to the hotel, so I had been missing for three days. Nobody knew where I was at. My family, my kids, and everybody was looking for me. Then, they went and arrested her – this was the next day after they showed her the picture. Two officers went to my gym – she was at the office with her daughter – and talked to her. They said that they were doing a missing person report on me because I’d been gone for three days. She had this look like she was surprised, like, “I don’t know. I’ve been calling. I called a sister and they don’t know where he’s at. I call his friends and they don’t know where he’s at.” Then, she called and talked to her mother there. She said, “Mom, when was the last time we saw Ramon?” She said something like, “I think I saw him on Wednesday somewhere,” while knowing that she was just laughing the night before when she saw a picture of me dead.

 

Scott 

And this is the audio of the day that the officers went to the gym, supposedly, to ask Lulu about the fact that Ramon was missing and to see if she knew where he might be. Of course, they knew he was in hiding and she thought he was dead, so she just played dumb. Then, they arrested her.

 

 

Detective Martinez

I’m Detective Martinez. I have a few questions for you. Is there somewhere we can talk in private?

 

Lulu

Yes, sure. Please come this way.

 

Detective Martinez

Okay. I never knew there is a boxing gym here.

 

Lulu

Yes. We have been here for five years now.

 

Detective Martinez

Okay.

 

Lulu

This is my daughter and my mother.

 

Detective Martinez

Okay. I got a call today that, apparently, your husband hasn’t been to work today.

 

Lulu

That’s what I think. I received a call today from a friend at work. He called me today and asked me for some information. I said, “Well, I haven’t seen him. We’re going through a divorce.”

 

Detective Martinez

When was the last time you saw him?

 

Lulu

Wednesday was the last time I saw him with my mom and my daughter. I was here from 4 AM to 12.30. Then I go home, take a shower, and then come back. That’s when we, sometimes, see him.

 

Detective Martinez

So he hasn’t contacted you in the last 24 hours?

 

Lulu

No.

 

Detective Martinez

When was the last time you checked your phone to make sure that you don’t have a missed call? Are you like most people? Do you check your phone a lot?

 

Lulu

Yeah, I have my phone with me all the time.

 

Detective Martinez

Okay, Miss Sosa. You’re under arrest.

 

Lulu

Why?!?!

 

Detective Martinez

It’s okay. Stay back. We have a warrant.

 

 

Ramon 

So the officers were right there and said, “We have an arrest warrant.” They arrested her in front of her mother and her daughter – there were still clients in the gym. So, they took her in from there and that was it – she just got locked up.

 

Scott 

She had to know right at that time.

 

Ramon 

Oh, yeah. She knew exactly what was going on. She told her mother to call her attorney because she knew what she had done – there was no doubt. Then, my family didn’t know what was going on. The next thing I knew was there was a press conference. My news came out on every network around the nation. They showed what happened about me being a murder-for-hire or that she had been arrested for murder-for-hire – so, how my family found out was through the news.

 

Scott 

So you didn’t even tell them? Did they find out by watching the news?

 

Ramon 

Yeah. I didn’t have a chance because they had a press conference. By the time I could call them, it was too late and it was just mad crazy. People were crying and calling me. They had no idea that this was even going on, and it was crazy. Crazy.

 

Scott 

Of course. You’ve been missing for three days and your kids didn’t even know where you were.

 

Ramon

Exactly.

 

Scott

How did you reunite with them? When did you meet up?

 

Ramon 

Well, back then, my oldest son, Mitchell, was in San Antonio. He graduated from college and started working in San Antonio. Then, I have another son in LA, Cris. He’s in the acting and comedy business. My daughter was out there in LA too – she was modeling back then too. Two of them were in LA, so I called the one in San Antonio, Mitchell, and told him what was going on. The first thing that came out of his mouth was, like, “What the hell’s going on?” So, I explained to him. It was tougher talking to my daughter because she’s the youngest. Let me tell you… I’ve never heard that cry in my life when she heard my voice – she cried and cried and cried and it was horrible. To this day, it still bothers me.

 

Scott 

They realize that they could have lost their dad.

 

Ramon

Yeah, exactly. I was close to being dead but, thank God, it worked out for me.

 

Scott 

The visit to the gym where Lulu got arrested is on video. I’ll have that video on the website for this episode, so people can watch that if they want to.

 

Ramon 

Yeah. It’s kind of crazy to know that, the day before, she was laughing and asking the undercover officer – whom she thought was the hitmen – if I was gonna go to get up and, the next day, she’s all worried about me. Cool. That’s what a psychopath does – that kind of stuff.

 

Scott 

So, she got arrested. I think, a year later, she took a plea deal?

 

Ramon 

Yeah. She was arrested for first-degree solicitation of capital murder and they gave her a million-dollar bond. A year and a half later, there was so much evidence stacked up against her that she had, like, 3 different attorneys trying to work with her – they finally gave up and said, “We’re just gonna plead.” She pleaded down to a second-degree capital murder solicitation of capital murder and got 20 years. When she got a sentence, I went to the hearing and they let me talk, they asked me if I wanted to say something, and I did. When I got up there, she never looked at me, she was standing in front of the judge and looking towards the judge with her attorney. I told her that I forgave her because I was living with this rage and this anger. I cannot go day-to-day. I wasn’t sleeping. I was so stressed out. I feel like the only way I can release all that stress and anger was by telling her that. Unless you are in a position like I was, you don’t understand the situation that goes through your mind and the anger that I have for her, her family, and everybody who was involved in trying to kill me. I forgave her. I said, “Everybody in this courtroom has made mistakes in their life. We’re not perfect, but for the mistakes that you’ve made, you’re gonna pay the consequences for, and God is gonna take care of it.” She never looked at me. She had no remorse – not once. All the times that we were in court for all the hearings, there was not one time that she had any remorse. I guessed that she felt like she was right for what she did. So, that’s the last thing I remember about her. Lulu loved wearing nice expensive clothes and shoes. We did well with the gym. Then, seeing her in a jumpsuit of pink and white stripes, chained up, wearing those $1 state shoes was the last thing I saw her when they took her away.

 

Scott 

The night that she saw the picture of you dead and laughed may have been the last night she laughed since then.

 

Ramon 

Yeah. The way she was laughing – she was very happy. I keep telling people that it looked like she had just hit the lotto, literally, because she said, “He’s not getting up, so it’s time for me to get paid now, basically.”

 

Scott 

So she was sentenced to 20 years. When did she actually start serving that time? How much time has she served now?

 

Ramon 

I believe since 2015. I guess they started with the time she got arrested in June 2015. So, it’s been 4 years and she’s at a state penitentiary in Texas.

 

Scott 

Is there a chance that she would get out early?

 

Ramon 

I’m pretty sure there is – with good behavior. I think she’s been out for parole a couple of times – believe it or not. I had to write letters and have people write letters. She has been denied.

 

Scott 

That seems so soon for a 20-years-sentence to be out for parole after a couple of years.

 

Ramon 

Yeah. I don’t know how that works in the state of Texas, but they have denied her both times. So, I don’t know what’s going to happen.

 

Scott 

Have you thought about when she gets out of prison?

 

Ramon 

Oh, yeah. Trust me. I still live with this. There’s not a day that goes by – not being scared – without me being very, very cautious of everything that’s around me. That’s one thing that she did to me – I still have a lot of problems trusting people. I’ve been staying away from, sometimes, even my family and even Mundo – the young man who I owe my life to. I have, kind of, separated myself from a lot of people that helped me and it’s not because I wanted to. It’s just because I just need time to recoup. Every day, I felt a pistol get close to my head. There was a time when I was sleeping on my own bed with a loaded shotgun. I also had a 40-millimeter gun in my kitchen and a 9-millimeter in the car loaded at all times – that’s how I lived for a while but is that a way to live?

 

Lulu comes from a family in Mexico. Her family – her sister, brother-in-law – does well for themselves. They do well in the business that they own, and I think that they can just pay anyone from Mexico to come over here and take me out for nothing, basically, for revenge, but I live in God’s hands. I pray and I let him take care of it. I have people that still watch me. Until this day, I still watch myself and watch my back because I still don’t know if there’s a plan B or C. Like I said, the separation that I created with my family, Mundo, and the people who love me is not because I’m trying to be mean, it’s because I need time. I’m going through counseling too because this has not been easy in my life.

 

Scott 

It’s not like you can find a group therapy with other people who have been targeted for murder. I mean, the situation that you were in is unique.

 

Ramon 

Yeah. It’s been very tough.

 

Scott 

I understand Mundo is trying to keep a low profile as well, fearing retribution from his past – gang activities and that kind of thing.

 

Ramon

Yeah. Unfortunately, he also has to live like that, but he did it for me, and I owe my life to Mundo. I’ve told people – whoever it is who interviewed me – that God puts people in your path for a reason. He put the young man, Mundo, in my path for a reason – he was that angel who saved my life. If it wasn’t for him, I would not be here right now.

 

Scott 

And he has written a book based on his perspective about the part he has played in this.

 

Ramon 

Yeah. Mundo said that he wrote a book called, “My Son Mundo.” I wish him the best. I mean, to people out there listening, go out there and get his book.

 

Scott 

Yeah, I’ll have a link to where you can buy that book on the website as well for anyone who wants to read that.

 

Ramon 

Yeah. I wish him the best and I hope people out there go get his book.

 

Scott 

What’s your day-to-day like now? Do you still train young kids to fight?

 

Ramon 

No. I sold my gym. It was just too much for me at that time when all this stuff happened. I tried to keep up with it for almost a few months but there were too many memories and too much work for just me. We lost a lot of members because of what happened and I was, eventually, building it up again. So, I ended up selling it. I also rented my house out – the house where Lulu and I lived. There were just too many memories. I moved out into Houston. I was living in the wilderness area, like, north of Houston. I’ve been writing a book and it’ll be out as soon as the summer approaches.

 

Scott 

What’s the title of your book?

 

Ramon 

The name of the book is called, “I Walked on My Own Grave.” It talks about everything that happened – about me growing up, my family, and my kids. There are stories in there that have not been mentioned in any of my interviews around the world – I have not mentioned a lot of stuff that are in the book that are, like, jaw-dropping – things that will make you be like, “Wow! How could I live through this? How did he live through that?” What I want is for couples to learn from this book because, a lot of times, we live in a time where men keep their mouths shut. Men don’t talk. Men are afraid to call the police because of the stigma of machismo – like, “Why do you call the police on a woman and that kind of stuff?” So, this is for them – they cannot keep their mouth shut because a lot of women use sexual assault and abuse… When it does happen and is legitimate, man, they need to throw the book. I mean, I have a mother, a sister and, most importantly, a daughter. If any man does that to one of them, I hope they throw the book at them and get put away forever. But when you turn it around and a woman does this to a man, although it is a lie, I could have been in prison for the rest of my life because of this woman, I could have been dead because of this woman.

 

Scott 

There are men who are still currently in prison because of accusations that could never be proven.

 

Ramon 

Exactly, exactly. The statistics show that it very seldom happens – if that happens to your father, your brother, or a man in your life – how would you like it if they call you and say, “Look, your father’s locked up for abusing a lady,” although he had nothing to do with that? When that happens, the book needs to be thrown at her.

 

Scott 

That’s a good cause. This sounds like it has all the elements of a movie. Is there any possibility of that? Have you thought about that?

 

Ramon 

Some people have called me about a movie deal and I said, “No,” because I don’t know about that kind of business and I haven’t made any decisions yet. So, when the time comes and is right, I just want to let the book speak for itself. If everything goes well, we’ll see. I’ve been asked for some independent stuff, but I decided not to yet. I might just let the book go out there and see how it does. Again, it’s something that I believe is going to help out people who read about what happened to me – I hope they learn from it so that it doesn’t happen to them. If I can save one person or family or couple from going through what I went through, I think I’ve done my job.

 

Scott 

Ramon, we are happy to help you share that message. Boy, what an amazing story! We really appreciate you coming on here and telling them.

 

Ramon 

It’s been a pleasure, Scott. I definitely look forward to listening to your podcast. I hope that everybody out there enjoys this podcast and can learn something from it. If you know somebody who’s going through this, get them help. If you read my book or if you read Mundo’s book, I hope you learned something from it. We’re not perfect, but we can surely work at it with each other. If it doesn’t work out, you just get divorced and make things work that way. You don’t have to go to that extreme.

 

 

Scott

Ramon, welcome back to the podcast.

 

Ramon

Thank you for having me back. First of all, congratulations on your podcast. I think you reminded me that was what 21st interview you had.

 

Scott

Yeah, I think it was the 21st episode. It’s been five years. At that time, Lulu had been in prison for about four years. Is she still locked up?

 

Ramon

Is she still locked up? She has actually been released on parole – a very strict parole – in November of 2023 and she’s going to be serving the rest of her time, which is 12 more years on the parole. So, she has very strict restrictions. Of course, she can’t be around me and my family, and she’s about 11 hours from where I’m at.

 

Scott

Oh, so you know where she’s living then?

 

Ramon

Yeah. The parole board– I have all access and they keep me updated with everything that’s going on with her at all times.

 

Scott

Do you feel like you’re in any danger from her – or not necessarily her, but her family?

 

Ramon

I’m not going to say that I don’t because I still watch my back and I still do that– I’m a different man. My life will never be the same ever again ever since what she did to me and my family, to be honest with you, because when my family found out that she was out on parole, they started panicking and I tried to tell them, “Look, she’s going to get out sooner or later. It’s going to happen sooner or later. It is what it is. I will just have to be careful.”

 

I don’t live my life lacking fear where I go but I do watch my back and I try not to go to places where there are a lot of people. That’s how my life is now. I don’t do a lot of things that I used to do before. I’m very careful with the people I speak to on the phone and numbers I don’t recognize or people who try to reach out to me on social media. I don’t answer that kind of stuff.

 

Scott

It seems, obviously, if anything happened to you, she would be the obvious suspect – or someone in her family. Before, when she was trying to have you taken out, it was a financial thing. She wouldn’t have that incentive now, right? She’s not going to get anything.

 

Ramon

Oh, no. The only way that I believe that she would try to do anything or have anybody do anything to me is just out of rage and anger or payback or anything like that. Financially, she’s not like getting anything out of it. I mean, honestly, I don’t think she would do anything knowing that she spent eight years locked up and she would be definitely the first person that would go after her and her family. I just leave it in God’s hands and I pray for my family and myself. I got to move on. I got to move on with my life.

 

Scott

And from her standpoint, she’s on parole. If she messes up, not just in relation to you, but if she does anything and screws it up, she’s going back.

 

Ramon

Oh yeah. The parole board gave me all the rules and she has to go bye bye. They’re very strict. They’re very strict, especially for the first year. She’s right now has a monitor on her ankle and she has to do some anger management classes. She has to find a job. I don’t know where she lives exactly – halfway house or whatever – but they’re keeping up with her and I have access to her parole officer at any time I have any questions. So yeah, I’m updated with whatever it is she’s doing if I see anything funny around me or something.

 

Scott

What’s happened since then? Or what are you doing for work now?

 

Ramon

My life has been great. I’m very happy to say that I’m now engaged to a wonderful lady.

Scott

Oh, congratulations. That’s awesome.

 

Ramon

Thank you. I’m very happy about that. She’s wonderful. She’s been great to me and my family, and I’m just happy that I found somebody. How God puts people in your path for a reason – that’s what happened with her. She’s been great.

 

As far as my job, I sold my business, my boxing gym, and I’ve sold my home that we had together, and I got rid of all them – too many memories – and it was just a mess. I also have my book. I take care of myself. I’m working out and I have three beautiful grandkids now, and I spend a lot of time with them whenever I can. I do have a 9-5, I’m an instructor. I’m just happy to– I tell people all the time that have known me for years and they start laughing every time I meet them. I see them out there and I tell them every time they say hello to me, “Man, it’s great to be alive, and every day for me above ground is a good day.”

 

Scott

Because you have literally been below ground in that grave. It’s a unique perspective that you’ve had.

 

Ramon

Yeah, I tell people all the time too, I say, “Look, man. I’ve literally walked to my own grave.” I’ve never met anybody or heard anybody that’s ever done it or had that done to them.

 

Scott

Isn’t it amazing– I mean, if you look back just 10 years – the life that you had then and the life that you have now – it’s almost like you’re a different person.

 

Ramon

Oh, totally. In my heart, I’m happier now, I’ll be honest with you, with the person that I’m with now and the relationship that I have with my kids now too because that was another thing that she did and I can’t blame nobody but myself for letting her put a wedge between me and my kids. I have become a better father than I was back then because Lulu was a person that was very manipulative and she got to me and she put a wedge between my kids and I. Again, I can’t blame anybody but myself. I have a great relationship with my kids. Now, my daughter, Mia, and my sons, Mitchell and Cris, they’re my life. Yeah, my life back then was– I lived very well back then. Financially, I did a lot of things, but the way I live life now, I love it. I love being around my kids, my family, my grandkids, and of course, my future wife also.

 

Scott

And that’s the important stuff right there. It’s too bad more people don’t figure that out.

 

Ramon

Oh yeah. Family is everything. I mean, you can have everything and travel the world. Money is not everything. Money can’t buy you happiness. I’ll be the first one to tell you that it doesn’t buy you happiness and less headaches. I mean, of course you need it. Financially, you got to pay your bills and everything, but just being around my family and my kids and grandkids–

 

I work out a lot more now. I’m physically in better shape than I think I was back when I was competing. I looked at myself in those pictures from back then and said, “Wow.” But that had to do a lot of it with a lot of stress mentally and physically, and that’s what happens. Now, oh my God, I’ve developed different bodies. I’m about to be 57 in June and I look totally different. I worked out. We all try to work out every day and run and stay in excellent shape.

 

Scott

That’s important. And I’ve looked at your Instagram. You do look great.

 

Ramon

Oh, thank you.

 

Scott

And when we last spoke, you were in the process of writing your book. That book is out now. Tell us about that book. It just outlines the details of the whole story?

 

Ramon

Yeah. My book is, “I Walked on My Own Grave.” It’s my memoir about everything that happened in detail and it’s done very well. I mean, I received great reviews from people that have read it. Well, actually I didn’t write it, to be honest with you. I had a ghostwriter. I’m not a professional writer, but this is my story. I wrote my story and then my ghostwriter helped me put it together. Yeah. She did an excellent job in it.

 

As far as the book, I tell people it’s kind of like you’re watching these stories in Spanish or these novellas where you have to get to the end, you got to get to the next chapter because you can’t put it down. I’ve had people tell me this, “I could not– I mean, I started reading your book and I stayed up to three, four o’clock in the morning reading your book because, right after your chapter, I got to see what happens. I need to know what’s going on.” And that’s what it was.

 

It’s a lot of ups and downs. People tell me the same thing, “Man, there’s so many different emotions that went through me from being so happy. I’m so upset at this lady about what she did to you. And then, at the end, she got what she deserved and I’m happy for you.” And that’s what it’s all about – somebody that went through a very difficult situation in a relationship. My hope is that whoever reads my book or even listens to my story gets something or learns something from what happened to me so it doesn’t happen to them. Or if they know somebody that is going through a difficult situation, they can learn from what happened to me.

 

Scott

It’s so great to have a true story like this, and yet it has a happy ending.

 

Ramon

Yeah. 

 

Scott

Not so happy for Lulu, but for everybody else.

 

Ramon

And what’s so crazy, Scott, is that I’m still doing documentaries. This thing happened in 2015 and I still get asked all the time to do different documentaries from around the world. Different companies call me to do that. But what I’m planning on doing now is telling my story myself on stage like a one-man show. I think I’ve came across some people that I brought it up to and they were like, “Oh man, that would be awesome because it’s nothing like having the person that it happened to right there in front of you telling their story, a true crime story of what happened to me on stage.” I’ve spoken in interviews so many times that I’ve gotten pretty good at it and I think that I would be pretty good at telling my story on stage.

 

Scott

Yeah. You’ve had a lot of practice and first-hand true stories. That’s the whole premise of my podcast. That’s why your story was really perfect to come on here. Of course, since then, we’ve done lots and lots of other ones, but you definitely have a unique story. So we’ll have links to some of your YouTube appearances, your interviews, stuff like that, as well as, of course, the link to where to get your book. Where’s the best place to get the book? Just Amazon or is there someplace else you would prefer?

 

Ramon

Yeah. Amazon is probably the best place right now to get the book. If they don’t have it, they’re sold at different locations. Any major bookstore has it. If they don’t have it, they can order it.

 

Scott

And the title again is, “I Walked on My Own Grave.” What a crazy story. Thanks for coming back on. It’s great to hear from you again.

 

Ramon

Thank you so much, Scott, for having me on. Again, congratulations on your podcast. And man, many best wishes for you and your family.

 

Scott

You can see a recent picture of Ramon, and get a full transcript of this episode, at the episode notes page for this episode, which is at WhatWasThatLike.com/180.

 

Here’s a question – did you know that I send out a short email every time I release a new episode of What Was That Like? It’s true. But it’s not some boring email that just says “Hey listen to my show” or “Hey buy my merch” (actually I hardly ever promote my merch).

 

No, with my emails I try to make it entertaining and fun to read. I mention what the new episode is about, then I also link to something interesting I just discovered, such as an article about the one drink to never order at McDonalds, or the first thing you should check when you get to your hotel room.

 

And I also always include a recent picture from my phone – I often snap a picture when I see something interesting and I love sharing these things with you.

 

And honestly, one of the reasons I have the email list is because I don’t trust Facebook. Facebook is weird sometimes. Right now there are over 7000 people in the podcast listener Facebook group, but Facebook has been known sometimes to just say “Hey, we decided to shut down your group!” and it just suddenly vanishes. And then how do I communicate with you? Well, at least I can send out a message to you if you’re on my email list, saying “Hey, guess what – the FB group got shut down” and you wouldn’t be wondering what happened.

 

So if you’re not already getting my emails, you can sign up for free at WhatWasThatLike.com/email. And of course you can unsubscribe any time if you want.

 

Okay, enough about email, let’s get to the Listener Story!

 

Every episode we close out with an audio story that was sent in by a listener. Just something interesting, or scary, or funny, or sad, or amazing, or anything that you think people might enjoy hearing. So what’s YOUR story. If you can tell it in like 5-10 minutes, record it on your phone and email it to me at Scott@WhatWasThatLike.com.

 

This week’s story is from someone who witnessed a car accident that involved a friend.

 

Stay safe – and I’ll see you next week with a Tuesday Question episode, and a brand new episode on Friday.

 

(Listener Story)

It was about 6.30 in the evening in Kansas City, Missouri. We were at our friend’s apartment complex. We were leaving, walking out to our car, and our friend Logan was following us out, and he mentioned something about his 4-wheeler and how he wanted to show us something. So we’re like, “All right.” We got in the car. We were following him out. When we got to the stop sign, we put our blinker on to go left. We watched Logan make a big hook to the right. So he made a big arc like he’s going to head left, but just kind of swings it around.

 

As we were watching him, I looked at my boyfriend and I was like, “What is he doing? I have no clue what’s going on right now.” My boyfriend was like, “I have no clue what this guy’s doing.” As we’re watching a car comes from the left side and slams into him going at least 40 miles per hour – maybe more – and Logan went flying like a ragdoll so far up into the air, just straight up, and he just slammed down. All I was saying at that point was, “Oh god.” And when he landed, my instant thought was, “He’s dead. He has to be dead.” I pulled up into the lane where he was – they were kind of in the turn lane – and I got out of my car really quick.

 

I saw that the four-wheeler was jammed underneath the car that hit him. There were liquids pouring out of the car. The bumper was ruined. The four-wheeler is absolutely totaled. Our friend was lying there and, then, the absolute craziest thing happened. He jumped up and he sprinted away. I have absolutely no clue how he did this but we later figured out that it was probably a concussion mixed with adrenaline that just made him sprint away. So, I went and sprinted after him.

 

As I was doing that, my boyfriend was talking to these two gentlemen who were in the car. I did not hear their conversation but I do know that one of the first things they said when they got out of the car was they didn’t have insurance. We understand our friend also did not have insurance which meant that our friend did not want to call an ambulance, and the closest public hospital was 20 minutes away. So I asked him, “Please let me call 911, get you an ambulance. I don’t know what’s wrong with you, but I know it has to be something bad. It has to be.” He said, “No, just take me to the hospital. Just take me to the hospital.”

 

So we got into the car. My boyfriend grabbed these guys’ information, their phone number, and their names, and we went to the hospital. On the way, he was asking me questions like, “Am I going to die?” That just scared me so badly. I was like, “I have no clue. You could have internal injuries. I don’t know.” He also thought that his face was caved in because he just had a huge gash on his forehead with blood, pretty much making him blind in one eye, and he’s like, “Am I going to be able to see again?” I’m like, “I don’t know.” And my boyfriend gave him a shirt to put on his head.

 

We finally got to the hospital. We walked into a sea of absolutely horrified faces because I don’t think most people who get hit by a car just walk into the emergency room, but he did. He’s a trooper. They took him instantly back to triage. As he was back there, I was calling his girlfriend, trying to get her to come up to the hospital. She was completely out of the loop. When she saw the scene, there were cops there but nobody knew what happened. The other guys left the scene because they didn’t want to get in trouble for having no insurance.

 

So she got up there and they transferred him to a trauma hospital. They get MRIs and X-rays, and he is so lucky he only came out with a fractured vertebra, a pretty mangled-up thumb, some pretty big gashes on his head that needed stitches and staples, and a concussion, and that’s it. He got out of the hospital that night with just some pain pills and a recommendation to go to physical therapy.

 

I saw him a week later. He looked like he was healing up fine. He could walk fine. He showed us that he could bend his back. It’s just honestly a miracle. I asked him if he felt like a superhero because I was like, “You just got hit by a car and you’re alive.” And his response was, no, he doesn’t feel like a superhero. He is just mad that his weekend was ruined.