For many parents, having a child in daycare is just part of the daily routine.
And choosing a daycare provider for your child can be a pretty involved process. You obviously want to make sure the environment is safe and clean, with staff who are qualified, and that the ratio of caregivers to children is reasonable. And there are a ton of other things to consider, because you are trusting this place with your baby or your toddler – you have to be able to trust that they will make good decisions while caring for your child.
Kelli had two children in daycare, and she didn’t have any reason to not fully trust that they were both safe. Until one day when she was at work, and she got a phone call.
Also, partway through our conversation, I had a surprise for Kelli. She never saw it coming.
Note: This episode includes discussion about the death of a child.
Resources:
https://www.aap.org/?srsltid=AfmBOoqyf7QNutD7mPa639vbew7TtRqdp2YIUK9ml_DHxvYHASW41Hth
https://safetosleep.nichd.nih.gov/
If you’d like to contact Kelli, her email is Kalm032524@gmail.com
Full show notes and pictures for this episode are here:
Graphics for this episode by Bob Bretz. Transcription was done by James Lai.
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Episode transcript (download transcript PDF):
Please consult the show notes for content warnings about this episode.
For many parents, having a child in daycare is just part of the daily routine.
And choosing a daycare provider for your child can be a pretty involved process. You obviously want to make sure the environment is safe and clean, with staff who are qualified, and that the ratio of caregivers to children is reasonable. And there are a ton of other things to consider, because you are trusting this place with your baby or your toddler – you have to be able to trust that they will make good decisions while caring for your child.
Kelli had two children in daycare, and she didn’t have any reason to not fully trust that they were both safe. Until one day when she was at work, and she got a phone call.
Also, partway through our conversation, I had a surprise for Kelli. She never saw it coming.
Scott
You have described your life at that time as perfect. Can you maybe elaborate on that a little bit?
Kelli
Sure. Before I met my husband, I had previously been married for six and a half years and it was a pretty toxic marriage. I got very depressed and I was just really unhappy for pretty much the whole entire duration of our marriage. So, when I finally met my husband, I just felt like I was so incredibly lucky that I finally had the life that I had prayed for because I had been depressed for so long. I didn’t really feel like I deserved it. In the marriage that I was in previously, there was a lot of gaslighting and manipulation, a lot of financial and verbal abuse. So, I always just felt like I was less than, and I was downgraded quite a bit.
So, when I finally met Austin, I just felt like I hit the jackpot. It was kind of funny how we met. After my divorce, I went to a country bar with one of my friends. She knew that I was having a pretty rough time and I was just kind of in a funk, so she wanted to just take me out and get some drinks. She was meeting up with a group of her girls and I reluctantly said yes, and we went out that night. We’re just sitting there at the table having some drinks and in walks this tall, dark, handsome guy with a backward hat on and a tight black shirt. He asked me to dance. Two days later, we went on our first date. Two years later, we actually ended up getting married right in the middle of COVID. That was an interesting time. We ended up paying off all of our debt during that year, which was amazing, because I didn’t have a super great relationship with money just because of my past and everything. So, being debt-free felt so good. A year later after we got married. We welcomed our first baby girl, Mila.
Scott
Your friend that introduced you to Austin must feel pretty good about this.
Kelli
Oh yeah, she takes full credit. Austin actually went to that country bar with his friend and he’s the one that pretty much takes all the credit for our relationship and our marriage now.
Scott
And can we say the first names of these friends just so they get some credit?
Kelli
Sure, so my friend was Janet and Austin’s friend was Jimmy.
Scott
You were happily married. You had your first baby, your daughter, Mila, and you had a house in the country. It’s like you described it when you sent it to me, your life was just perfect. And then you had a brand new baby boy, Logan…
Kelli
Yes.
Scott
Tell us about Logan.
Kelli
Oh man, where do I start? Logan was born on March 25th of 2024. My husband Austin and I were so excited that we were going to have one of each. So we were going to have a boy and a girl, which we always wanted. We knew that, after we had Logan, we were done. We just wanted two. So we had Logan and we nicknamed him Logie Bear. The moment that Logan was born, I just remember distinctly when they laid him on my chest. Just my connection with him was just instantaneous. I knew right away, him and I were going to be best friends. We were just going to be so close and just have an incredible mother-son relationship. I remember, when he came out, he had the most beautiful head of black hair I had ever seen, and I just started crying. I don’t know what it was, but I was just so in love with him the moment that he came out. Logan was such an easy baby. He loved to just eat and sleep. I swear that’s all I was doing – just constantly feeding him. He could eat so much. He could put down the milk.
Scott
He’s a growing boy.
Kelli
Yes. His dad was 11 pounds when he was born, so he took after him. He was just a very healthy baby. He was in the upper percentile for his height and weight. He was just really progressing with his milestones. He was starting to do really well with tummy time and he was developing really good head control and he was getting really good with his finger dexterity. He was starting to grab onto objects. So it was just really fun seeing how quickly he was progressing with all of his milestones and he was a very happy baby. I just loved waking up next to him. He had his little, like, bassinet next to my bed. I just remember rolling over and he would just be staring at me and I’m like, “How long have you been looking at me for? How long have you been awake?” But he just had that adorable gummy smile and it was the best thing to wake up to.
Scott
So, if life was perfect before, now it’s even more perfect with the addition of Logan, it sounds.
Kelli
Yes. Our life was complete. We had everything that we had dreamed and prayed for. And yeah, life was good.
Scott
You went back to work two months after Logan was born. How were you going to arrange that as far as child care?
Kelli
Mila had previously been going to this daycare. It was an in-home daycare. She had been going since she was, like, eight or nine months old. I started going back to work two months after Logan was born. This particular day was Logan’s third time there because I was taking them to daycare one day a week. It was just for a full day on Mondays. I also had my father-in-law watch them for 2 half days on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.
Scott
So you mentioned that Mila had already been going there. Did she like the daycare? I mean, did she enjoy going?
Kelli
She did, yeah. I mean, she was always a little apprehensive at first but, once she was there, she was fine. She had friends there. They did activities. They played outside. They did a lot of fun things, and she did have fun there, and I never had any reason to worry about her. I have heard great things about this daycare. She’s been in business for 31 years, so it was highly recommended by several people.
Scott
And this was in a private home, right?
Kelli
It was, yes.
Scott
Okay, so you started taking Mila and Logan there one day a week. How old was Logan at this point?
Kelli
He was nine weeks old when we first took him.
Scott
So everything seems to be going okay. You have gone back to work. What kind of work do you do?
Kelli
I am a physical therapist assistant, and I work at a skilled nursing facility. With my job, I get to see long-term and acute patients that come in. I also travel to a nearby town that has an assisted living facility, and I also see outpatients who will come into the facility. So I get to see a wide variety of different things.
Scott
And a lot of these are repeat clients, right?
Kelli
Yes. And a lot of patients will come in as acute rehab patients and then discharge home and then some of them will actually come back as outpatients.
Scott
So I would imagine seeing these same people repeatedly. They knew you were pregnant and then you were out for a while and now you’re back. They were probably interested to hear about the new baby.
Kelli
Yeah, pretty much. When I first started coming back to work, I was constantly talking about Logan and just showing co-workers and patients pictures and just talking about how well everything has been going. Everybody was so interested in how everything was going. I had brought Logan into the facility one time. I showed the therapy team and some of the patients that were there just how adorable he was. So some people got to see him.
Scott
There was a day when, close to the end of your workday, you got a phone call.
Kelli
Oh yeah, on June 10th of 2024. I woke up that morning. It was just a typical Monday morning. I got the kids ready for daycare. I got ready for work. My husband got ready for work and everything was going good. I dressed Logan up in this cute little baseball outfit with these little cute pants. I just remember I always loved putting his hair in these cute little hairstyles because he had so much of it. I remember combing his hair into a little mohawk that day. So I took them to daycare and then I went off to work. That morning, I saw some patients at my home building. Then, I was going to drive to this Assisted Living in the nearby town to see a patient, and I did that after lunch. So I go to see him and I treat him. I’m driving back because I had a couple more patients at my home building.
On the way back to my home building, I have to drive by the daycare. I just remember thinking to myself as I’m driving by, I really want to just stop and see my kids. I really miss them, but I know that I only have two patients left, so I’m just going to go get work done and I will see them soon. So I got back to my home building and my next patient was actually a previous patient of ours. He was a gentleman in his early 90s and he was kind of like a grandpa to me. We talked about everything and he was just the sweetest old man. Of course, he wanted to see pictures and just hear how everything was going. I finished up the session with him, and I’m getting him rescheduled for his next appointment.
Then, I got a phone call. I had an Apple watch on that day, so my watch was buzzing. I looked down, and it was the daycare provider’s name. I thought it was really strange because I had never received a call from her. I mean, since Mila had been going, she had never called me one time for anything, and she rarely texted. So, I instantly just got this pit in my stomach that something was wrong. I go over to my phone and I answer it. The only thing that I really remember her saying was something about a pillow and a bed. I could tell that she was in a state of panic, but I couldn’t understand what she was talking about, but I knew that it wasn’t good. So I hang up the phone and I grab my purse and I run out the door as fast as I can.
I get in my car. I called my husband, who’s at work. I just told him about the phone call that I received. He’s trying to calm me down. I’m obviously panicking, not knowing what had happened, and he’s trying to reassure me, “Everything’s okay. We don’t know what happened. Just try and take a deep breath.”
Scott
When you were making that drive, what were you speculating could have possibly happened?
Kelli
When she said something about a pillow and a bed, my first thought was he was laying down on the bed, and he had somehow rolled off, and maybe there was supposed to be a pillow there, but there wasn’t, so he rolled off, but it didn’t make sense to me because he was only 11 weeks, and he wasn’t even rolling at that point. So I was just very confused. She didn’t say any names over the phone, so I didn’t know if it was Logan or if it was Mila. So I had no idea even what to expect, but I knew that something was not good. I started driving over there. It’s only about a five-minute drive. Once you get on the highway, it’s 65, and I’m pretty sure I was at least going 85-90. It was a short drive, but I was pedaled to the metal on the way there. I just remember, on my way over there, I was just pleading with God, “Please let my kids be okay.” I didn’t know what to think. Anything that I could do or say just to get some sort of answer from God, I was just seeking that at that moment.
Scott
Before Kelli got that phone call at work, the daycare provider had already dialed 911.
911 Operator
911, what’s the address of the emergency?
Daycare
I’m in daycare.
911 Operator
What’s the emergency there?
Daycare
My little guy is not breathing.
911 Operator
How old is the patient?
Daycare
Oh my gosh.
911 Operator
About one, two, a couple months old?
Daycare
Oh my gosh, he’s maybe five months old.
911 Operator
Is he choking on something or did you just find him that way?
Daycare
No, he was sleeping. I had him wrapped up with a pillow.
911 Operator
Okay, can you give me an approximate age? A couple of months old? How old is the baby?
Daycare
Five months, six months, oh my gosh.
911 Operator
Is it male?
Daycare
Yes.
911 Operator
Okay. We’re getting paramedics on the way over there. We’re going to need to start CPR, okay?
Daycare
It’s too late. He’s all dark. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.
911 Operator
Okay, so you don’t want to do CPR?
Daycare
(Inaudible) He’s gone. Oh my gosh. I need to call his mom. Oh my God. (Inaudible). How did this happen?
911 Operator
How long has he been laid down for the nap?
Daycare
Oh my gosh. How long has he been laid down? I can’t even think of what time. Oh, sorry, I have children everywhere. Oh my gosh.
911 Operator
Okay, I’m getting help on the way over there. What is your name, ma’am?
Daycare
(Hidden information).
911 Operator
Okay, tell me what’s your telephone number.
Daycare
(Hidden information). Can I please call the mother?
911 Operator
Okay, alright. I’ll let you go so you can call the mother. I have help on the way.
Daycare
Okay, thank you.
Kelli
I started getting closer to the house. I saw several cop cars. I saw an ambulance there, and my heart just dropped. I pulled into the driveway. I parked my car. I honestly don’t know if I shut my car off or not, but I ran inside the house. There was a paramedic just standing in the living room, and he gestured with his hand to go into the bedroom, so I did. There were a couple of paramedics in the bedroom as well as a daycare provider. I could see Logan was at the head of the bed and he was covered up. As soon as I walked in, they uncovered him.
The first thing I said when I came in was, “Is he okay?” And they just all shook their heads and said, “I’m sorry, but he’s gone.” When I heard those words, I just screamed and I just collapsed to the floor. It’s just one of those things that you never prepare yourself for. I honestly don’t know how long I was on that floor, but I just remember the feeling that I had while I was laying on that floor. I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced shock, Scott, but I felt like I couldn’t move. I felt like my body just weighed like a thousand pounds. It was kind of like in the movies when you hear some tragic news, just voices sound far away, your vision goes blurry, and you’re just shaking, your heart is pounding out of your chest, like nothing is making sense. I just felt like I was having some sort of out-of-body experience.
When I finally got the strength to stand up, I started walking towards the front door because I knew that I was going to have to make some pretty difficult phone calls. I just remember, on the way out, there was a female police officer standing at the front door. I distinctly remember her just grabbing me and just hugging me as tight as she could and looking her in the eye and seeing the pain and the sadness that she felt for me in that moment. I didn’t know this woman. I didn’t know if she had a family of her own but, just in that moment, I felt so much love and empathy from her and I just truly appreciated that hug from her more than words honestly can describe. I just feel like first responders don’t get enough credit for what they do. Every day, they’re putting their lives on the line to protect us, and they’re usually the first ones at the scene of some pretty tragic incidents. As hard and traumatic as it is for them, they do it for us and they have to be strong for us, and that’s exactly what she was for me in that moment. So it meant a lot to me.
Scott
That was a bad day for her too. That’s really good. The empathy is amazing.
Kelli
Yeah, definitely. So I went outside. It was a hot day that day. The sun was just pounding down. It was blistering heat. Honestly, I didn’t even recognize how warm it was because of everything that was going on. I wasn’t even in my own body at that time.
Scott
You must have felt like this was just like a nightmare. You just want to wake up.
Kelli
Yes. I felt like I was in the twilight zone, like I didn’t know what was real and what wasn’t. It’s a very strange feeling and I hope that I never ever have to experience that again.
Scott
Your brain can only process so much and this news carried such weight and enormity. How do you even respond?
Kelli
It was kind of confusing for me the way my body was reacting because, to me, if this had never happened and somebody said the same news and asked me how I would react, I’d be like, “Oh, well, I would obviously crumble to the floor and just be crying hysterically and screaming and pounding the floor.” But that was not how my body reacted at that moment. I was completely calm. I just remember going and sitting on the grass and just staring into the sky. I was just so confused about what had just happened and what just took place that I couldn’t even comprehend it. I just remember questioning myself like, “Why am I not crying right now? Why am I not screaming in agony? Why is this not affecting me the way that I assumed that it probably would?” So it was a very strange feeling. I mean, everybody reacts differently to tragic news.
Scott
And you never know how you’re going to react until it happens.
Kelli
Yeah.
Scott
Austin must have shown up at some point.
Kelli
He did. When I called him, he left work and started making his way towards the daycare. When I went outside, I called him, and that was the second worst phone call I’ve ever had to make. I mean, obviously he couldn’t believe it. He and I probably should have just waited. I probably shouldn’t have even called him because he was driving and that’s stupid on my end but, when you’re in the moment, you’re just not thinking.
Scott
Nobody expects you to be thinking straight at a time like that.
Kelli
So I called my father-in-law. My in-laws only live about five minutes away. So I called him and he immediately came over. Then, I had to call every single one of my family members and they all live about 4-5 hours away. I honestly have no idea how I got through those phone calls. No phone call that everybody wants to receive. One thing that I do remember is, while I was on the phone with my family members telling them this news, I just remember looking around and there were several police officers. There was the chaplain and different people there. I just remember looking around and several of them just had their heads bowed down and they were just praying. I could see several of the male first responders just wiping away tears because, again, it’s like they may have families of their own and they probably couldn’t even imagine just the pain that we were going through in that moment. It was just a very heavy moment. The whole entire situation just felt like a complete nightmare and I remember closing my eyes and just thinking okay, “I’m going to open my eyes and this is going to be over. It’s going to be a dream. Everything’s going to be good.” Unfortunately, that didn’t happen.
My in-law showed up, Austin got there and we had to wait outside for the coroners and the detectives to investigate, which honestly felt like days. I felt like we were just out there wasting away in the heat, just waiting for news and just trying to comprehend what was happening.
Scott
Do you know how long you waited for that to finish?
Kelli
Oh, gosh, I don’t. I would say probably an hour and a half, an hour and a half, maybe two hours. But I remember the kids outside. These kids were waiting for their parents to pick them up. First responders usually keep toys, stuffed animals, and things in their cars for incidents like this, so they’re handing out stuffed animals to all the kids. I just remember them running around and just being so happy and carefree and I don’t know, Scott. There was just something really beautiful about the innocence and the laughter of these kids amongst just a very dark and somber moment, and Mila was one of those kids. She was so excited that she had two new toys. She had no idea that her brother’s death was being investigated and that he wasn’t going to be coming home with her. It was a light moment in a very dark situation.
After waiting for what seemed like an eternity, somebody which I don’t remember came over to us and they asked if we wanted to hold Logan before they took him away. I said yes, but I couldn’t look at his face because when I went into that room and I saw him, his face was, like, a bluish gray color and it was just very traumatizing for me. I told them that I did want to hold him, but if they could cover his face with a blanket or something. They brought him out and I just remember them handing him to me and just the weight of his body– I don’t know if it was because I just felt so weak at that moment or what but, when they handed him to me, it just felt like I was holding so much weight in my arms. He wasn’t even 15 pounds yet but just the weight of his body, I just feel like I couldn’t even handle it. I walked away from everybody. One song that I sang to him when I was trying to get him to go to sleep was You Are My Sunshine. So I sang that song to him and I just remember holding him and just praying. I don’t know particularly what I was praying for, but I prayed. I handed him over to Austin and he had his time. Then, Mila was able to give him a kiss on his forehead. and then they took him away.
The weight of that moment when they walked away with him was just one of the most painful things I’ll ever go through. Getting in the car with an empty car seat and the silent ride home. The silence was absolutely deafening at that moment. On the ride home, Mila would occasionally ask, “Well, where’s little brother?” You can’t even answer that because you can’t even begin to comprehend it yourself what had just happened, let alone describe it to a toddler. Then, getting home was even worse because all of his items were everywhere. You have bottles, diapers, clothes in the closet, blankets, swings, and just all the baby stuff everywhere. It’s just constant reminders that he’s never going to come home. For me, I had to put some of this stuff away because I couldn’t look at it. It was just so painful to me knowing that he was never going to be able to use these things again. So I started just putting things in bags, in our basements, and in the garage – just places that I would not see it – because it was too hard.
Honestly, I wish that I wouldn’t have washed all of his things. I wish I wouldn’t have washed some of his blankets and his clothes because, now, I just crave the smell of him and I don’t have it anymore. The next couple days were awful, were really hard because we had to start doing funeral prep, which I feel like is illegal when you just lose somebody and you’re in the, like, beginning stages of the grieving process. Trying to figure out plots in the cemetery and just all of the details of the funeral, and picking out a headstone, all of those things are just so difficult when you can’t even think or hear straight. Austin and I were very grateful to have our parents with us at that time to help us make some of those difficult decisions.
Scott
And I assume family and friends were probably bringing meals and stuff like that.
Kelli
Oh my goodness, yeah. So, the support that we had after the news got out was just absolutely incredible. I can’t give enough credit to just all of our family and friends, and our church family was absolutely incredible. We actually had two meal trains going plus just random people bringing over meals.
Scott
It’s something tangible that people know how to do because they want to do something.
Kelli
Exactly, yeah. I mean, even if you don’t say anything, you don’t have to. At that moment, all we want is just your presence, just a hug. You don’t have to say anything because we already know there are no words in a time like that. Just people showing up and people that we didn’t even expect. people we haven’t even heard from for 10-15 years were reaching out to us and donating and fundraisers. It was just truly incredible just seeing everybody come together for us at that moment.
Scott
Were there friends who you never heard from about this?
Kelli
There is. There is one girl in particular, which is kind of funny how this all worked out. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of the mom app called “Peanut”. It’s an app where you can meet other moms that have similarities to you and things that you guys have in common and you can connect on that. I met this girl on this app and we had been talking for maybe five or six months just occasionally through text here and there, “Oh, yeah, we should meet up.” “Okay, yeah. Whatever.” It’s probably not going to happen. Well, we actually have something on the calendar. I think a week or two before we were going to meet up– she was in a different state for business. I just remember texting her and telling her the news and she literally turned around. She was on a work trip and she turned around to be there for us for this moment. I didn’t even know this girl yet. For all I knew, she could have been somebody that was totally fake. But yeah, she was on my doorstep a couple of days later, and that’s one friendship that I will never forget how it started. It was almost like Logan brought us together. We’ve been really good friends ever since. Her name is Alex. She’s been great.
Scott
Yeah, that’s amazing. I’d never heard of that app before. What was the name of the app?
Kelli
It’s called Peanut.
Scott
Peanut.
Kelli
Yep.
Scott
Okay.
Kelli
Yeah. There are people that we thought would show up for us that really haven’t, and there are people that we didn’t think would or that we obviously didn’t expect to who were there for us. It’s times like these that really make us grateful for those that have been there for us.
Scott
You got the investigation report from the coroner. What actually happened?
Kelli
So the day after Logan passed, we actually went to meet up with her, so she and the detective could discuss the findings. They had done the autopsy the night before and what she found was the daycare provider had actually laid Logan down for a nap between 10.00 and 10.30, and he wasn’t fully asleep at that time. She had laid him down on a Pack ‘n Play insert, so it wasn’t actually in a Pack ‘n Play, but the insert was on a maid bed. She placed a rolled-up blanket on one side and a firm pillow on the other side. So what happened was, while he was asleep or maybe not even fully asleep yet – I’m not entirely sure because I don’t have all the answers – what had happened she suspected was he had turned his head towards the side where the pillow was and his face was just close enough to the pillow that he was not getting good oxygen exchange. So the carbon dioxide just built up and eventually that led to him going hypoxic.
She said, “Best case scenario, he probably just fell asleep”, which, as a mother, you never want your child to suffer. So if that’s the way that he went, that gives me a little bit of comfort. She went in to get him, but the coroner said the time of death was somewhere between 11 and 1. She takes blood pooling and joint stiffening into consideration. He had been in the room for approximately 2.5 – 3 hours, maybe longer. It’s kind of hard to determine the exact time frame, but she did have 11 kids that day which, in the state that I live in, you have to have at least two staff members for that many kids, especially if you have kids under two years old because they need more supervision.
Scott
And there was only one that day?
Kelli
There was only one. Yeah.
Scott
And that’s the owner of the daycare?
Kelli
Yeah. I don’t know this for sure, but I just feel like she got busy and possibly forgot about him. There’s no reason why he should have been in the room as long as he was, especially because his naps were never typically longer than 1 to 1.5 hours. Also, I don’t know if she checked on him at all during that timeframe. These are all still questions that I have that I may or may not get answered. The coroner did say that it, in fact, was not SIDS and that his cause of death was asphyxiation or accidental suffocation, and if that pillow would have not been placed there, then he probably would still be here with us right now.
Scott
He had no other health issues or medical problems otherwise?
Kelli
None, no. He was a very healthy baby. Both of my pregnancies and deliveries were pretty much flawless other than typical aches and pains. I did develop carpal tunnel with both of my kids but that doesn’t affect anything in the womb.
Scott
He wasn’t able to roll over anyway. So having that pillow there, it almost– I know you, as a mother, want to know what happened and how it happened. Does it make it worse knowing that such a simple thing was so easily preventable?
Kelli
Absolutely, yeah, I do think about that a lot, honestly. At times, I think it may have been easier for me to cope with this if it was SIDS because the cause is unknown, so there’s nothing that could have been prevented that could have caused it. But in Logan’s case, it was completely preventable and that’s what’s so hard for me to come to terms with. Just by moving the pillow over, which there shouldn’t even be a pillow there in the first place because he was not rolling and he was swaddled– if that pillow hadn’t been there, then he would still be alive. So it definitely consumes my thoughts very frequently.
I have dealt with a lot of guilt because of it. For some reason, as a mother, you want to protect your child. I’m just thinking of different signs that I may have missed, but there was nothing leading up to this point that made me question his safety or anything. I don’t know. There’s nothing that I could have done to have prevented this. We did a viewing just for family, and then we did an open public service for everyone else who wanted to attend. His service, honestly, Scott, it couldn’t have gone any better. The pastor of this church – it’s the church that we attend regularly – when they found out the news, they were on their way. When I say they, it’s him and his wife. They were on their way to the South for a two-week trip to visit family and also to just explore the South. When they heard the news, they immediately turned around. They were only on day two of their trip and they wanted to be here for us, and that just meant the world to us. It just shows what kind of people that we’re surrounded with. They had a whole entire trip planned and they came back to be there for us and Logan. I mean, I can’t even describe how grateful we are for them.
Austin and I didn’t really know how to do a funeral. I mean, we’ve never obviously done this before. We’re still early on in this grieving process and the family and friends who came together to help us put this together were amazing. We had a beautiful slideshow that my cousin made. Logan actually got a really cute outfit. It was a three-month outfit that he hadn’t worn yet, but he got it for one of his baby showers. They were cute little slacks with a dress shirt and a little vest. So we dressed him in that with some little dress shoes. My mom gave me a little St. Jude medallion to put in his little pocket. Austin and I, we both wrote Logan letters and we read them to him. Austin’s mom, she actually had started making Logan a little quilt prior to his passing and she wasn’t done with it yet, but we asked her if she could take a section of that quilt out to be buried with him. That was really special to have that with him in his casket.
Going up to him to see him in his casket was– man, the funeral home did their absolute best to make them look presentable. It was interesting seeing him with makeup on. They have to cover up the gray blue color and everything, and it was strange. But also at the same time, I’m glad that I saw him in a better state than I did that day. They had his hair combed over really nice. I just remember touching his head and just stroking his hair for the last time and just how ice cold he was. The last time that I had done that, he was perfectly happy, healthy, warm to the touch. Like, everything was great and just didn’t seem real.
Scott
We don’t realize how quickly life can change.
Kelli
Yeah, exactly. So after the viewing, we just did a graveyard service with a family and then we had the open service for the public. I still, to this day, have people telling me that was one of the most touching services that they have ever been to – not just funeral services but, like, an actual church service. It touched a lot of people in ways that I didn’t even think was possible. We played a song at the very end called Holy Forever by Chris Tomlin, and it was a song that I played on the way to daycare when Logan was being really fussy and crying. As soon as I played that song, every single time, he would quiet down, and it was just silence in the car. I don’t know what it was about that song, but he loved it, so, naturally, I had to play that at the funeral and it was so powerful. Just hearing everybody singing that song so loudly, I just knew that he was there with us. So that was a really special and touching moment for us.
After that, we gathered up all of our stuff and we went home. We had to continue living our lives without him for the next month. We had frequent calls and texts and messages and just everything. Meals were still coming in and then it got pretty quiet. That’s when it started getting really hard for us because, like I said, silence is deafening. When you don’t have the cries and the chaos of having a toddler and a newborn at the same time, it gets pretty, pretty cold. So we just had to learn to live with our new reality.
Scott
Yeah, the chaos of having two little ones at the same time may not seem fun at the time, but now you miss that.
Kelli
Now, that’s all I crave.
Scott
You mentioned that you got through this more easily because of help from friends, and you went with a friend to what’s called a Rage Room. I’ve never heard of this before. Can you talk about that?
Kelli
I honestly didn’t even know that these had existed. Somebody had mentioned it to me, so I looked it up and they had one in our area. Essentially, it’s a room where you can go break a bunch of stuff. They can provide you with things to break or you can bring your own stuff.
Scott
What kind of stuff do they offer that you can break?
Kelli
There are things like electronics. We didn’t bring any of our own stuff, so we just did whatever they had. But they had, like, desktop computers. They had TVs. They had china plates, cups, wine glasses, and just things like that – things that are obviously pretty, easily breakable – and then they have different things that you can break it with. They have sledgehammers, crowbars, and baseball bats.
Scott
It sounds like fun.
Kelli
It was a blast. I am so glad that we did it. I just feel like it’s a very healthy way to get out any pent-up anger.
Scott
And you did this with a friend?
Kelli
I did, yeah. Her dad actually passed away 12 days after Logan, after battling cancer. So we were both just in those early stages of grief and yeah, we had a blast. It was so good for us and I highly recommend it to anybody. If you have that in your area, do it.
Scott
And your friend’s name?
Kelli
Her name is Lexi.
Scott
I have a little surprise for you.
Kelli
Oh gosh.
Scott
Speaking of Lexi…
Lexi
Hi Kelbell! I just love you so much and I’m so proud of you, so proud to be your friend. One of my favorite things about you is how silly you are. You are one of the funniest people in my life, and I know I can be my authentic self around you. In our 20-plus years of friendship, we’ve become wives, mothers, and mostly grown-ups. I have loved watching you become a mom and pour all your love into your children. You are truly an example of a mother who loves fiercely and the kind of friend I know I can count on for anything. I admire how much you appreciate the little things and how genuine your heart is. You are so driven to work and provide for your family, and you inspire me to be a better mom and friend. You have been dealt one of the hardest cards in life, and yet you have carried yourself with such grace, Kelli. Sharing your story shows just how brave you are and I admire your strength so much. I think the way you show up for Mila in spite of what you’re going through is another testament to your character. You were able to set your grief aside to drive five hours to support me and mine when I lost my dad, all less than a week after Logan’s funeral because you are such a selfless person. I am grateful for all your support through his sickness. Every single prayer, phone call, or text meant everything to me. I’m happy Dad and Logan have each other in heaven and I hope he’s snuggling him right now. I am so lucky to call you my friend and have your love and support in my life. I love you so much, Kelli.
Kelli
Oh my gosh. Wow. I was not expecting that.
Scott
Good friend.
Kelli
Yeah. Wow. Oh, I was wondering how you knew about the Rage Room. I don’t think I told you about that.
Scott
Lexi contacted me by email and she was messaging me just to say how grateful she was that I’m having you on to tell this story, and then we came up with this little plan.
Kelli
Wow. You guys are amazing. Thank you. Oh, that was great.
Scott
Has therapy helped you get through this?
Kelli
Oh my gosh, yes. I feel like I hit the jackpot with the therapist that I am seeing right now. She has just been truly incredible. I had several people recommend EMDR therapy to me, which stands for Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing. What it is is a type of therapy that basically helps reprocess traumatic events. For me, that day, just replaying the whole thing, especially the moment when I walked into the bedroom and saw Logan– in the first couple weeks after he passed, I was just constantly thinking about that moment and just replaying it over and over in my head. It just really started to consume my every thought and it was just very mentally exhausting, and I knew that I wanted to begin the healing process, but I knew that I had to try something that I knew that I couldn’t do myself because I try and do things myself a lot of times. I try and not resource out because I don’t like to spend money, but it hasn’t gotten me very far.
In my past, I never addressed some of the trauma that I had. So, I really wanted to put myself on a better path. This time, I knew that I had to do something different. So, I decided to give it a try. After about probably the second or third session, I noticed a pretty big difference in how I was processing that image and I’m just so glad that I did it because it has given me a little bit more freedom in just how I grieve and I just don’t feel like I have chains around my ankles and wrists because I can actually properly deal with my trauma in a healthy way. I understand that it’s not really a cure for everybody. I still think about that day and it’s still hard, but it’s definitely better than it was. It just really gave me a jumpstart into the healing process and just facing my grief head-on.
Scott
This happened so recently. I mean, as we record this, this was just a few months ago. You’re already talking publicly about it. Why is that?
Kelli
For some people, it’s very difficult to talk about this fragile of a subject this early but, for me, talking about it is actually pretty therapeutic and I just feel like this is something that I want to get out there as soon as possible because it might impact somebody’s life and make a difference. Probably a couple weeks after everything had happened, I had posted Logan’s story on a discussion forum on an app that I’m a part of and a lady had actually commented – actually a couple of ladies commented – that after reading his story, they have actually changed the way that they put their newborns down for naps and for bedtime. If that’s all that comes of this, even if it’s just a couple people, that’s honestly my goal for telling Logan’s story – just talking about how important it is to practice safe sleep with infants, especially in those early months, the first four months being the most critical because their central nervous system is underdeveloped and their brains cannot fully detect when they’re not getting enough oxygen at that young of an age. So I just think that it’s a very crucial topic that needs to be talked about more because it is such a fragile topic, a thing that a lot of us don’t really think about especially when we get comfortable doing things a certain way. It just can happen so fast and I just think we need to kind of step back and reevaluate how we’re doing things, just make smarter decisions.
I know that a lot of us are– we’re not perfect parents, especially in those 8 to 12 weeks after we bring a baby home. We’re in zombie mode. We are just so sleep deprived and we’re just out here just trying to do our best. If the baby sleeps, we sleep. So we want to try and put them in a position where they’re going to get that. Sometimes, that’s not always the best position and it puts them at a higher risk. That’s why I’m coming on to talk about safe sleep practices.
Scott
When I think of safe sleeping for infants, I think, “Okay, make sure they’re in a crib so they don’t fall off the bed.” But I know there are people hearing this right now, parents of newborns who are going to take action and it’s because of you – not just for asking questions about daycare sleeping arrangements, but obviously at home as well.
Kelli
Yeah, exactly. I mean, like I said, we’ve all put our kids in maybe not the safest sleeping situations. I mean, I’m the first to admit that I have fallen asleep with my babies in my arms. I have co-slept. I have put my baby on the bed, not on a firm surface for a nap. So I’m not perfect. Nobody’s perfect, but that’s why I’m here because it is something that we all need to be more aware of and, if this helps save one baby or two babies, that’s all I can ask for.
Scott
For me, I’ve heard The term SIDS,, but you have mentioned something else, SUIDS. Can you talk about what the difference is?
Kelli
With SIDS, typically after an investigation, there is no known cause of why the baby passed. However, with SUIDS, it’s actually an umbrella term that includes SIDS, and it also includes accidental suffocation, strangulation, and wedgement. In Logan’s case, it’s considered SUIDS because it was accidental suffocation and they were able to determine after they investigated what the cause was. So I just kind of want to talk about the importance of certain positions to put your baby in when you’re putting them down. Several of the websites that I have been researching, all of them have talked about putting your baby on their back when you put them down for a nap or when you put them down for bed. This was kind of crazy to me but, according to the Safe Sleep campaign, if a baby usually sleeps on their back, putting them on their stomach or their side to sleep increases the risk of SIDS or SUIDS by up to 45 times, which I thought was insane. 45.
Scott
45 times. Not 45 percent more, but 45 times more likely.
Kelli
And so my question was, “Well, what if they roll over? What if they’re at the point in their life where they can roll over?” And I did find an answer to that, and it said that when they do get to the point where they can roll over, then you can leave them there, but you always place them on their back to begin with. You never put them on their stomach or their side. So I thought that was interesting. I’ve honestly learned so much just from the research that I have done recently and I thought I was the mom that did all of the research and I knew all the answers. If I don’t have an answer to something, I’m always on Google researching it.
My husband always makes fun of me because I always have to know the answer if I have a question. Just all of the stuff that I have been seeing is just eye-opening to me, so it’s been a learning experience for me too. I just encourage parents and daycare providers and family members or nannies, whoever it is, if you’re caring for an infant, I just encourage you to do some research and just learn. These babies are precious and they deserve the best care possible.
Scott
We’ll have those resources. We can put that in the episode notes so people can check that and look at that if they want to. And we also have lots of pictures of Logan and your family. So I’m sure people will want to see that as well. Thanks for sharing your story.
Kelli
Yeah. Thank you again for having me. I appreciate it.
Scott
If you would like to contact Kelli, her email address will be in the episode notes, and you can also see some pictures of her family there – that’s at WhatWasThatLike.com/202.
There’s an interesting thing with Kelli’s story that we didn’t get to talk about. She and Austin were just planning on having 2 kids, so a couple of months after Logan was born, Austin scheduled an appointment for a vasectomy. His appointment was for June 3rd, but something came up and he had to reschedule it. Logan passed on June 10th, just a few days before Austin was to have that procedure. They never would have thought that something as simple as rescheduling that first appointment would be so life changing.
And just recently, Kelli let me know that she found out another detail. Originally she thought Logan was in that room for around 2 ½ or 3 hours. It turns out he was there for almost 4 hours, even though there were no monitors in that room to keep an eye on him.
Couple of voice mails about last month’s episode with my guest Fenna, then I want to tell you about a podcast episode from another show that you’ll want to hear.
Voice Mail 1
My name’s Jackie. I’m from Chicago. I just listened to the episode about limerence and I just wanted to say I love myself so much more now that I’ve done the work getting through limerence than I ever did before. I even met that person who got me into that limerence state. That was the last thing I wanted to say. And I just wanted to say thank you for featuring this person on your podcast. It was a great story and I think it’s going to help a lot of people.
Voice Mail 2
I just listened to the podcast with Fenna about limerence and I have never, ever heard a story that resonated more with me than this one today. I went through a lot for years, very much exactly the same that Fenna explains with a particular person, and I do think that it changed my brain forever. I think one of the most poignant aspects of it is that addiction aspect. I personally still have dreams about that person. I get, like, my dopamine hit in those dreams and I imagine it’s very similar to someone who’s addicted to drugs, like having dreams about getting their hit and having that– I don’t even know. It has just kind of opened my eyes about what I’ve been going through for 15 years now. It has affected my current relationship with my spouse and my brain is still trying to work through it, so I’m not sure if that addiction will ever really truly go away, but it’s very real. The withdrawal symptoms are physiological. The trauma symptoms are ongoing.
So, I just want to thank you and Fenna for enlightening me on my particular situation. It makes me a lot more confident that I might be able to really work through this and get rid of some things that have been bothering me for so many years and have affected my relationship. I mean, maybe, I can’t get rid of them, but at least I recognize it. So, maybe it’s easier to put them aside. So thank you.
Scott
And now, check this out – have you ever heard audio of someone giving birth? Well, here’s your chance. My friend Kiona is the host of the show called Birth As We Know It. Every episode is someone telling the detailed story of giving birth. And in the most recent one with her guest, Jeanelle, you will hear some audio of her in labor, and her baby being born! It’s pretty cool. Just go on your podcast app and search for Birth As We Know It, and check out episode 76.
Graphics for this episode were created by Bob Bretz. Full episode transcription was created by James Lai.
And now we’re about to hear this week’s Listener Story. This is how we end every episode. If you have an interesting story you can tell in 5-10 minutes, record it on your phone and email it to me – Scott@WhatWasThatLike.com.
This Listener Story is a mother talking about an experience with her autistic daughter. And I did something different with this one – you’ll understand when you hear it. I love this one.
Stay safe, and I’ll see you next time.
(Listener story)
Angela
Hello, Scott. I would like to share one of many stories that I have about raising my daughter with a developmental disability and autism. My daughter, Hannah, has autism, and she was enrolled in a very intense program to help her with her autism. It required Lots of people helping us, many hours. It was quite intense, it was hard, but we saw her meet her own true potential. She had quite high needs in her autism – she still is, but she’s doing really well. When she was younger, she needed to be taught everything because she really – and I hate to say this, it sounds really mean – had no skills. So, one thing that we had to teach her was getting in and out of vehicles, opening doors, closing doors. Everything that we do needed to be taught, and we taught it in very, very small steps. Very, small steps were taught to her with lots of encouragement along the way and giving her lots of breaks as needed.
She was able to go to school and the bus would come and pick her up at our house. The bus wouldn’t come onto our driveway. It would stop at the end of the driveway. We had to teach Hannah how to open the door, how to close the door, how to walk down the steps, how to walk down the driveway, how to get into the bus, and that was just that. Then, in the school, they had to teach her how to do all those things in reverse and get into the school. That’s a whole other story I tell you – it’s a good one as well, but this story is about getting into the bus. So we had taught her the steps bit by bit with lots of people helping. She had done really well.
Then, one morning, I thought, “You know what? I think that I don’t need to walk alongside her to get into the bus today. I think that she has earned the right to try it by herself because we had done the work, she knew how to do it. So I’m just going to stay in the house. I’m going to watch her get into the bus by herself.” I’m a woman and it’s quite obvious. I decided to stay in my pajamas and they weren’t, like, really pretty pajamas. They were kind of comfy pajamas. So I stayed in my pajamas, watching through the window, thinking this is going to be just a real moment, watching her get on the bus. I’m probably going to cry. It’s going to be so meaningful. So I said, “Goodbye, Hannah.” She opens the door, walks out, closes the door, walks down the steps. I’m so proud.
But then, on the driveway, there’s a pile of dirt that we had sitting there because we were doing some landscaping. Hannah was obsessed with sand and dirt. She would sit with sand or dirt and she would pile it for hours. She would pile and pat. That was just her thing. We don’t know why she loved it so much. We can guess, but we don’t really know. So, she didn’t pay any attention to the bus that was waiting, she went right to that pile of dirt, and she sat down on the driveway and started piling dirt.
So, let’s remember, I’m in my pajamas, which aren’t pretty pajamas. I’m not wearing any undergarments that would sort of make me feel like I could just rush outside, but maybe it’s a dress or something. So I’m like, “Oh dear. Okay.” So I’m knocking on the window trying to get her to take notice, but she’s autistic. The window being knocked on doesn’t make any difference to her. There are teenagers on the bus and there are young kids on the bus. There’s a show going on. So what do I do? I go to the closet. I’m in front of my husband’s oversized jacket that he has for hockey and I’m about to go outside. All of a sudden, I see one of the teenagers coaching her from the window and she’s looking at him. He’s pointing to the door, she gets up from her obsessive dirt pile, and she goes into the bus. I didn’t have to go out in my pajamas and hockey jacket.
The next morning, I was ready. There was no pajama, window-watching moment. I was going to go out with her. She did go directly to that dirt pile because she’s autistic and that’s what she would want to do again. So we just did a little bit of reteaching and she got into the bus. From there on, she knew how to get on the bus.
Scott
You heard Angela mention that Hannah getting off the bus is a whole other story. Well, I don’t know about you, but I wanted to hear that one too. So I asked Angela to tell that story as well.
Angela
This is the sequel to my short story, about my daughter with autism and a developmental disability that we had to teach to get on the bus. This part two is how we taught her to get off the bus. My daughter with her autism was very much prompt dependent. That means that people will prompt her to do things like, “Come over here, close the door, let’s get some water.” To be dependent on a prompt means that the person with autism and who is prompt dependent will soon learn not to do things on their own, and they will wait until the person who’s their caregiver prompts them to do so. My daughter, Hannah, was extremely prompt-dependent. It was very frustrating. Once we knew that, we had to work with that. We knew that. We had to not help her so much but, instead, we had to help her learn how to do things on her own. So the story of getting off of the bus goes like this.
Hannah would ride the bus to her school and she would sit in the same spot every time, and everyone allowed that. It was no problem. It was near the front of the bus. When the bus stopped, she would wait in her seat and all the kids would get off the bus. Some of the kids who were really good with her wanted to be her friend and wanted to help her, would say to her, “Okay, Hannah, it’s time to get off the bus.” Then, Hannah would get up and off the bus and go into the school. Then, one day, we realized that when the kids, for whatever reason, don’t say, “Hey, Hannah, time to get off the bus”, Hannah would just sit there and she wouldn’t get off of the bus until somebody would say, “Okay, Hannah, let’s get off of the bus.” Now that’s really not a problem if it happens once or twice, but the problem is that she’s learned that she doesn’t get up and get off of the bus unless someone asks her to.
We want her to be as independent as possible, so we came up with a plan through our autism program and we implemented this plan. The best part of the story is that we had such collaboration. We had our resource teacher, we had our educational assistants, and we had the bus driver. We had everyone working together. There were no control issues. There was just collaboration, and collaboration is what made her soar. We were all on the same team. So what we did is the bus driver finished their route, came back to the school, parked in front of the school, and we taught Hannah bit by bit, without prompts, how to get off of the bus. We lessened the EA’s help with every step and soon she could do it on her own without the EA’s help. Remember, there were no kids on the bus because the bus driver came back after the route, so she tried it with an empty bus.
Then the next step was, can she do this with kids on the bus? So what we had to do– or not we. I wasn’t involved in that, but the school staff talked to the children and said, “Hey, you know what? Thank you for caring about Hannah and wanting to be her friend, but we’re going to ask you not to talk to her when you get off of the bus, but you can talk to her later. Here are some other things that you can do to be her friend but, for now, she needs to learn how to get off the bus by herself.” And the kids understood. That was no problem. And I tell you, the first time that she got off the bus by herself with the kids, there was a huge celebration. We were all so happy. To this day, that story brings tears to my eyes. Number one, people cared. And number two, there was such collaboration on such a seemingly simple task of standing up and getting off of the bus, and we’re really grateful for all those people in the past. Thanks for listening.