Many years ago, I had a small pickup truck. It was kind of a junker.
Mostly, I just used it for when I had some stuff to haul to the town dump. It wasn’t pretty but it mostly served my purposes.
But this little truck had a problem. It would constantly overheat.
Even in the cold Maine winter, I would have to keep an eye on that temperature gauge to be aware of when the engine got too hot. And sometimes when it showed that it was getting really hot, I’d have to just pull over, let it cool down, and then maybe add some coolant to the radiator – once it was cooled down enough for me to remove the cap.
It was an inconvenience sometimes, but I never felt like I was in danger with it.
My guest today is Rachel. And she experienced something similar. Except in her case, she was on a bridge with no breakdown lane. And her two babies were with her.
And her car did way more than just overheat.
Full show notes and pictures for this episode are here:
https://WhatWasThatLike.com/216
Graphics for this episode by Bob Bretz. Transcription was done by James Lai.
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Episode transcript (download transcript PDF)
Many years ago, I had a small pickup truck. It was kind of a junker.
Mostly, I just used it for when I had some stuff to haul to the town dump. It wasn’t pretty but it mostly served my purposes.
But this little truck had a problem. It would constantly overheat.
Even in the cold Maine winter, I would have to keep an eye on that temperature gauge to be aware of when the engine got too hot. And sometimes when it showed that it was getting really hot, I’d have to just pull over, let it cool down, and then maybe add some coolant to the radiator – once it was cooled down enough for me to remove the cap.
It was an inconvenience sometimes, but I never felt like I was in danger with it.
My guest today is Rachel. And she experienced something similar. Except in her case, she was on a bridge with no breakdown lane. And her two babies were with her.
And her car did way more than just overheat.
Scott
When this happened, you were driving to work. What kind of work do you do?
Rachel
At the time, I was the director of a day activity program for adults with developmental disabilities. It was a recreational program. We did all sorts of things like drum circles and art projects, and I did fitness with them. It was just a place where people with disabilities could go and hang out for the day and give their caregivers respite. Actually, the day that this happened, I was driving to the Christmas party, so it was one of the biggest days of the year for my clients.
Scott
Did that mean that there was more traffic on the road or less? Do you remember?
Rachel
Well, it was in the morning on the way to school and work and that kind of busy morning commute–
Scott
Rush hour…
Rachel
Yep, it was busy.
Scott
Let’s talk about that morning. What time was this when you were driving?
Rachel
Roughly 8 o’clock in the morning.
Scott
How far did you have to go to get to work?
Rachel
At the time, I was living in a city called Everett, one of the biggest cities in Washington. It’s the home of Boeing, and we have the Navy there as well. So, just a lot of traffic, a lot of people, and a lot going on in the mornings. I had to drive my children to daycare first, so that was where I was on my way to. That was probably about a 20-minute drive from my home.
Scott
Alright. You mentioned your kids. Who was in the car with you?
Rachel
At the time, I had– my daughter was probably around 3 years old, and then I had a little baby boy, 9 months old.
Scott
Okay, so your two kids – you’ve already sent me this information. Your 3-year-old daughter is Talia and 9-month-old son is Weston?
Rachel
Yes.
Scott
Okay. All right. And I assume they were both in car seats?
Rachel
Yes. Weston was just a little guy at the time, so he was in one of those rear-facing car seats that has a handle that you scoop under the arm to carry it, and you disconnect it from the base of it.
Scott
Okay. It’s like a quick attach de-attach.
Rachel
Right.
Scott
Quick attach. Is de-attach a word?
Rachel
I’m not sure but, yeah, you can de-attach it – we’ll make it word – and it goes into a stroller, that kind of click.
Scott
Alright. When it started, were you already on the phone with your husband?
Rachel
Not when it started. I had left the house in a hurry. As it always is when you have young children, it’s kind of just assembly line, making sure everyone has their lunch, their hats, and their shoes, and we were kind of rushing out. Also, I just had a lot on my mind because I was supposed to be preparing for this big party which– I was performing Christmas music that morning and I had Santa arriving, so I was coordinating with Santa arriving and getting dressed, and all my clients were bringing their families. It was a very big day at work, so my head was in a lot of places at the time.
Scott
Yeah. You’re going in a lot of different directions, it sounds like. Okay, so what was the first indication that something was wrong?
Rachel
I was driving through town and still in Everett, hadn’t gone on the trestle, which is the bridge that connects over the– it’s like an estuary or an inlet that leads to Lake Stevens where my kids needed to go to daycare. I hadn’t even left town yet and I had to call my husband for some things.
Scott
And this is your husband, Reuben.
Rachel
My husband, Reuben. I was telling him maybe we need to pick up milk or – it was something very just rushed and kind of a thought that I had in the back of my head – sometime today, you need to pick this up or something. As we were talking, I was like, “Ugh. It smells so bad.” It did really smell like plastic melting but, sometimes, in Everett in the mornings, it does have a strong smoky or melty smell because there are a lot of bakeries. Sometimes, they will burn their bread or burn cookies or something in the morning. Also, we do have whatever’s going on at the Navy base and sometimes– I don’t know what is happening there, but sometimes there can be, like, strong smells or stuff going on there too. So, I just was, like, not thinking it was connected to my vehicle at all. Up to this point, my car actually had been running really well for us. I told him, “It really smells bad” and that was it. I didn’t even think something might’ve been wrong.
Scott
And he wouldn’t have thought anything’s wrong either.
Rachel
No.
Scott
It was just a funny smell.
Rachel
Right.
Scott
But it actually smelled like it was burning?
Rachel
I would say, like, a plastic melt smell. Then, I got off the phone and I continued to drive. When you get onto the trestle, it’s a busy– I think it’s three lanes because one lane is only open in the early morning and evening commute. It just opens so that more cars can go on the road. So, at the time, it was very busy. I think all three lanes were full, going one way. There are also a lot of big trucks, and it’s a busy, fast kind of road. There’s no real shoulder at all on this road, and it’s about 2.5 miles each way.
Scott
Are you ever nervous going over this bridge? I mean, it is a bridge, right? It’s called a trestle, but it’s also a bridge.
Rachel
Right. I think maybe it’s just what the locals call it, but we call it the trestle – essentially connects to highways. When I was a teenager learning to drive, that was definitely the road that we avoided until I was really ready to merge because it is busy, so a little bit scarier. Yeah. Going over the trestle and that was when I started to see a little bit of smoke in my view in front. Then, the temperature gauge went from cold to hot. It just went from cold to hot so quickly, like almost snapped all the way up. Not even gradual, just snapped all the way up to hot, and I definitely noticed that. I was like, “Something is wrong. The vehicle wasn’t shaking. It wasn’t difficult to drive. It wasn’t making noise. It was just smoking.” So I’m just driving along and I thought– well, at this point, I could still see some in front of me and I thought, “I am not going to pull over with my babies on the side of this road. I’m going to make it all the way across and then pull over in a safer place.”
Scott
Was there any place to even pull over anyway?
Rachel
Not really. There’s this skinny, skinny shoulder. I didn’t receive any tickets or anything like that, but I have heard that you can get a ticket on this road for pulling off. So, I also had that in my mind. I don’t even think I’m allowed to, like, stop here.
Scott
If you did stop, would you be actually blocking traffic in one of the lanes?
Rachel
Well, pretty much. I would definitely feel like I was on the road, but it’s like the skinniest shoulder. It’s definitely not safe. No, not at all. I was going a little bit faster than I would normally try to get across before I couldn’t see anything. On my dashboard where it usually would say PRND (Park Reverse Neutral Drive), that just said Stop. Like, directly across it, it just said Stop, which I didn’t know cars did that, and I have never seen that before. But that to me was like, “Okay, something is wrong.” Later on, after the incident, when I had spoken to my dad who is a mechanic, I told him everything that happened and he told me that when the gauge flipped like that to hot, that indicates that there was a fire under the hood, but we couldn’t see the flames at that point.
So I’m driving along and the smoke is getting higher and, pretty soon, I can’t see anything in front of me at all. So, I had to stop and I pulled off as far as I could, almost touching the edge just on the end there, and I thought, “Okay, I’m going to have to call my assistant at work. She’s going to have to start taking over for me. I’m going to obviously be late. I’m going to have to call a tow truck.” But the first person that I called actually was my husband, Reuben, again, and I told him, “Hey, there’s smoke coming from the car. I don’t know what’s going on, but I just pulled off here on the side of the trestle.” He’s not really a mechanically minded kind of guy. He is not a car guy. He didn’t have a dad growing up. He just didn’t learn anything about cars. So, he was like, “Well, just try and stay safe.” He was very far away as well. He was about probably 45 minutes away from me at that time.
Scott
I wanted to hear from Reuben what his thoughts were for that phone call. And so let’s listen to that now.
Reuben
When I got that first phone call from Rach, she was clearly panicked and stressed. It took me a second to decipher what she was trying to tell me. I was at my job. It was a new job I recently got and was really important for our family. It was about 50 miles away from where this event happened, so I wasn’t close. She was telling me that the car’s temperature gauge shot up and it was running hot, and she had to pull over on the trestle immediately. I knew that was a bad situation to be in. I tried to remain calm and be a voice of guidance and help. Now, for context, I’m not a car guy. I’m not mechanical at all, but I had a vehicle, that was not very reliable or good. Ran hot as well. When that happened, we would pour a little water on the radiator and just get the car somewhere safe. I think that was my initial thought of what she could maybe do but, again, not a car guy. Thinking about that now, that would probably have been a disastrous thing to do.
Scott
So there really wasn’t much he could do.
Rachel
No, I think he felt helpless at the time and he did give me the advice to pop the hood, which I didn’t end up doing just because I was nervous to get out of the vehicle on such a busy road. Later on, speaking with my father, he told me that would’ve been a very bad idea because I was up high in the morning with the wind and everything, and that could have caused an actual explosion to get air to the engine. So, thankfully I did not do that. But I did get off the phone with Reuben.
Then I called AAA. My dad has always, my entire life, told me that I have to have AAA. It has been ingrained in my mind. But at that time, my membership had expired. So I called to try to get a tow truck. I explained my situation. I said, “I have two babies here in the car, and I’m on the side of a very busy road with lots of trucks. My car is smoking and I definitely need a tow truck.” They told me that they could do that, but that I needed to sign up for a membership. So here I am, my heart is already kind of racing, and she’s asking for my credit card details, and I’m giving her that slowly so that she can hear me, and then she’s asking, “Well, do you want to be in the gold or the platinum class?” And I just cut her off and I just said, “Is it okay if we send the tow truck here first and get my children to a safe place and then I pay afterwards?” And no, apparently, that’s not how it works. I had to go through this whole process.
Scott
Wow. That sounds incredibly frustrating.
Rachel
I know. I’ve learned my lesson there. So, slowly speaking with her so she can hear me and–
Scott
So you’re actually buying a membership now?
Rachel
I’m buying a membership with my car, like, smoking into the air with my children in the backseat, and they’re restless. They’re little babies, so they’re just starting to kind of get restless anyway and not understanding what’s happening. As I was on the phone with her, giving her my details, that’s when I saw a flame just right in front of my eyes coming up from under the hood up my windshield.
Scott
Oh, so not out from in the front of the car, but it was right where the windshield is?
Rachel
No, I saw it right in front of my face. I can still see it vividly, actually. As soon as I saw that, I screamed, “My car’s on fire!” and I put my phone into my pocket. I could hear her, the AAA agent, yelling, “Call 911!” I just obviously felt I had seen action movies. I wasn’t sure how much time I had – if my car is on fire – until it explodes. That’s really what I was thinking. In my mind, this car is about to explode. I have to get my children out of this car. So I just reached in. You kind of think, as a parent, it’s of course your worst fear to have to rescue your children. Unbelievably, my husband, just a couple of weeks before the incident, had actually had a dream of driving over the trestle and he told me, “I had a dream of I was driving over the trestle – I had both kids in the backseat – and the car went off the edge into the water and I had to rescue one of them. Wouldn’t that just be such an impossible choice? Which child would you save?” And I was like, “That’s impossible. You can’t choose one.” But it is, I don’t know, for some reason, just the worst fear of a mother or a parent, and now I know what you do. You just reach for the child that is closest to you and just do– it was like I was moving my legs and I was just moving as fast as I could without really thinking. Just doing.
Scott
All instinct.
Rachel
Yeah.
Scott
Okay. So which one was closest?
Rachel
My son was the closest because, when I opened up my door, his door was right behind my door. I would’ve had to walk around to get my daughter.
Scott
When you got out, were you sort of stepping into right where traffic was?
Rachel
Yes, I was. I did notice that trucks were going around into the other lane as much as possible as you do when you see a stalled car.
Scott
Especially when that stalled car is on fire.
Rachel
Yeah. I scooped up my son who had no idea what was going on. I don’t even think he was crying. He was just sitting there. I scooped him up in my arms and I thought in my head, “What am I going to do? I can’t sit my baby in oncoming traffic. Where do I put him?”
Scott
But he’s in his car seat, right?
Rachel
He’s in his car seat. But how can you just sit a car seat on the road? Of course, I thought to myself, I’m going to have to get my kids out and run, and I’m just going to run along the side of this trestle. Unbelievably, I’m going to run up the hill and just get as far as I can away from this car before it explodes. I didn’t call 911, of course, because I’m still just getting my kids out, rescuing them out. I took his car seat and as I was thinking, I’m just going to lay him down right here behind the car. I went to go do that and an arm came underneath the car seat and I looked up and there’s this big Samoan, sort of islander man – picture kind of the guy in Moana.
Scott
Dwayne Johnson?
Rachel
Kind of, yeah. Just like a big guy, yeah. He scoops him up and he says, “It’s okay, mama.” And he takes my baby and goes to his truck, and I just thought “Hero.” He’s obviously some sort of angel or something. So I never had to sit him down in the road because, at that exact time, this man had scooped him up. Then, I ran and got Talia, my daughter out of the other seat. As I opened up her door, the flames were covering the entire hood of the car at that time and were spreading quickly. I was so scared. As I looked at her, she said my name in a way that I just will never forget. I can almost still hear it actually. She just said, “Mommy,” but the way that she said it was like she was terrified. So I got her out and just scooped her and ran for the truck that had Weston in it and opened the door, and this whole truck is just full of men, Islanders. They’re all from Samoa which– I lived in New Zealand for five years, so it was almost, like, comforting to me to be around these islander men that I just feel like are family-oriented people.
Scott
Especially when you know they are at least good men, because they stopped. They want to help.
Rachel
They did, yeah. And it was obvious they were on their way to, like, maybe a construction job or something from just the way they were dressed and things. For them to stop on their way to work, obviously, they may have been late to work. You have to kind of rush in the morning and for them to stop– as soon as I got in, one of the guys had Weston’s car seat sitting on him, and I just had my 3-year-old just in my arms, and I just said, “Go, go, go.” And I was just holding her head, and he did. He just went into traffic, and he just zoomed off. As I looked back over my shoulder to see the car, the flames were all the way into the sky.
Scott
It was completely engulfed.
Rachel
Yeah. It was like I just had a few minutes to have done that. It wasn’t an explosion, like a bang or anything, but it was enormous.
Scott
It was just burning up.
Rachel
Yeah.
Scott
So what’s going through your head as you are driving away or you’re riding away in this truck with these men?
Rachel
Honestly, at that time it was just relief, which I think that there’s probably no better feeling for a human than the feeling of absolute relief that something terrible was just about to happen and you have avoided that, especially– it’s like your worst fear as a mother, of course. I could have just lost my children. I just said, “Thank you, Jesus,” so loudly and all the men in the car were, like, tearing up. I mean, it was like everyone felt it. And then they said, “Where would you like us to drop you?” And I just said, “Just pull off in the first place. Just on the right-hand side was a car dealership just at the end of the trestle. So, that’s where they pulled in. They said that they weren’t going to leave until I had a ride.
I sat there in the car dealership, and I actually called one of my good friends. He was one of our pastors at the time, Luke. I called him and I just said– I was obviously very emotional and I just said, “Hey, my car just erupted into flames. I don’t know what happened. My car burned and I’m here at this car dealership,” probably blubbering. It was probably hard to understand me, and he said, “I’m already buckling up. I’m in my car. Just tell me where to go.” He gave us a ride to my parents’ house, which is close there. Then I just gave a huge hug to the guy who had rescued my son, and I just thanked him, and I never saw them again.
I never called 911. I think it just slipped my mind.” But, in preparation for this podcast, I had contacted the 911 dispatch and they were able to give me a printout of everybody who called. I think it was 4 or 5 people who had called 911 to report the fire. Even one woman had said, “There’s a man taking her baby. The car’s on fire. I don’t know what’s happening.” So it must have been quite a sight as you’re driving to work in the morning. But somebody called 911. Obviously, they dispatched the fire trucks.
When my friend Luke arrived at me – he’s a funny guy – he came through the door and he goes, “Hey, sorry I’m late. There was a big fire on the road.” And I just absolutely wept in his arms, just the first person that I had seen after that had just happened, and I was still, like, in absolute shock. Then, he took us to my parents’ house, and that’s when actually 911 called me or somebody from 911 called me and asked me where they wanted the vehicle. They said, “Are you Rachel Hawkins? We have your vehicle.” And they delivered the charred car to my parents’ house because they just have more space to house vehicles. When the car arrived on a tow truck, the tow truck driver was like, “I have never seen anything quite like this.” They were removing the car and I just walked around the vehicle, got my purse. My purse was in the backseat and it had ashes on it.
Scott
Were the contents of your purse okay?
Rachel
Actually, yes, they were. They were in the backseat where the children would’ve been. It had ashes on it. But yeah, the contents were still there. The front seat where I had just been sitting, like, an hour before was metal. It was, like, black metal, completely charred. The steering wheel– there was like nothing left of it. That part I think was maybe one of the most traumatic parts for me for some reason, I think – just seeing what could have happened, what could have been.
Scott
Yeah, because you were right there.
Rachel
Yeah.
Scott
If the flames started up in the engine area and moved back, maybe the fire department was able to put it out before it got to the rest of the car.
Rachel
To the gas tank, I guess, where it could explode. Yeah, I think that’s right.
Scott
You’re looking at that burned up car. You must have had all kinds of thoughts going through your head.
Rachel
Yeah. I obviously thought I have just lived my worst nightmare, and then I thought, “I don’t know if I ever want to drive again.” And then I also thought I would do this again in a heartbeat. I would do this every time for my children.
Scott
Because you’re a mother, of course.
Rachel
Yes.
Scott
Did you find it difficult to go to sleep that night?
Rachel
Yeah. I don’t specifically remember that night exactly, but I remember a few nights waking up. It was like I couldn’t get away from it. I’m sure a lot of people who have been through trauma, like, understand the feeling of like, “Why am I reliving it?” I’m just reliving it. Reliving it every night. Of course, in the dream, it’s even worse than in real life because, I guess, your mind is playing tricks on you, like what could have happened maybe.
Scott
And you have since driven across the trestle again. Did you see black marks in the road or anything from where your car was?
Rachel
Yes, exactly where my car was. Almost, like, every time I drive the trestle, I have to look. Even the last time I have driven across it, I saw this big black mark on the wall where the car was in flames. It actually was hard to drive for a long time. And for me, I think that’s kind of a touchy subject because my mom is a very nervous driver and, growing up, she only drove in our little town. And I always told myself, “I’m not going to be like that. I’m going to drive everywhere.” I typically do, but I was petrified every time I got in the car. In fact, I have one memory of driving along– there must have been, like, a bonfire going on or something at the time around the neighborhood. I’m driving into work and as I’m driving, I am, like, physically shaking and rolled down my window to smell. I was just, like, smelling obsessively to see if it was my car, and I pulled off, and I turned off my car to see if there was smoke and I turned it back on – I got to get to work – and actually drove to my parking spot at work and I just sat there and cried, like, “Is this how it’s going to be? That I’m not going to be able to ever drive?” And my husband does say that I have a nose for smoke. I’ve been like, “Something’s burning” and I’m always right.
Scott
The sense of smell is very closely associated with memory, and so when you smell something that is familiar, it takes you right back to that day, I’m sure.
Rachel
Yeah, exactly it does.
Scott
Wow. And yeah, Reuben said that he noticed some things in you that were sort of symptoms of, that you had been through that trauma.
Reuben
Trauma is something that I’m not really familiar with, honestly. It’s probably something that I try to avoid talking overtly about your feelings or difficulties in a way that’s really debilitating. I’m from England and I think that’s probably a little less part of our culture. It certainly was for my family very much. We don’t share the deeper levels of how we’re feeling with one another, and it’s something that’s been an issue in my marriage and just in life. I wish I was more open to that. So those conversations and those feelings that she was having, I didn’t feel like I really knew how to respond to that to best help her, but what I did kind of get the sense of was that it was really something that was going to be very difficult for her to move on from. The fact that she actually mentioned that she was interested in seeing a counselor, that was the first time that I think it fired home to me – just the severity of what she went through from an emotional point of view. When she said that she had a close friend who was a counselor and she wanted to go over to their house and be able to talk about it, I was all on board and I was interested to see what that would look like and what difference that would cause, if any.
It wasn’t really for the weeks and months after the event occurred that I realized quite how much it was preying on Rachel’s mind. She would talk about when she would close her eyes, how she would see it, or when she would drive past that spot. It was instant flashbacks and I understand all that and I think that counseling did really help her.
Rachel
I’m normally a very joyful, happy person and I think I was struggling afterwards and just feeling like nobody understood.
Scott
Yeah. Who else has been through something like that, right? I mean, how do you find someone to talk to who can really identify with it?
Rachel
Yeah.
Scott
Did you have therapy?
Rachel
Yeah, so, I am not typically a therapy goer. I believe in therapy, but I haven’t always been very consistent with that in my life. But I have a friend who is a trauma counselor and she was like, “I’m here if you need it.” I was kinda getting desperate and I was like, “Yeah, I’d like to just meet with you even once just to see if it helps.” She told me about something called EMDR therapy, which is, I believe, Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing. This is a therapy that I guess is often used in trauma therapy, specifically for soldiers who have come back from war where it can be done with either, like, a light that scans left to right and your eyes are following the light as you talk, or it can be done with– what I did was she gave me two little balls to squeeze one hand at a time as I was telling my story.
Or I think you can do tapping from the left to the right as you speak. What I think it’s supposed to do is it’s like a bilateral stimulation that takes your physical side with your emotional side and kind of separates that so that you can speak about it, or you can remember the event without feeling physical side effects, which is really interesting. My friend said to me, the therapist said to me, “Are you interested in this therapy?” And I was like, “I’ll try it.” To be honest, I don’t really believe in it. I don’t know if it’s going to help. I just feel like squeezing a ball isn’t really going to help me.
Scott
What good’s that going to do, right?
Rachel
Yeah. But it was about maybe an hour-long session and our first time meeting. First of all, she just had me tell the story as I was squeezing the balls. At the time, I could not talk about it without just crying. I was just weeping as I was talking and I was still squeezing the balls. Then, after that, she would just ask me questions and continuously squeeze as I was answering. Then, she had me go through this hypothetical, like what would have happened if you didn’t make it back to the car to get Talia, go all the way through the funeral, standing at the graveside, just really deep heart wrenching things too.
Scott
That sounds like extra trauma that you don’t need to think about.
Rachel
I know, but I’m not a therapist. Apparently, going through that and realizing that didn’t end up happening and that everything is okay, somehow, it really helps. Afterwards, she asked me, “Well, how do you feel?” I was like, “I actually feel better.” So I super recommend it. I don’t even think I had a bad dream afterwards.
Scott
So just one session?
Rachel
One session. I didn’t have any nightmares afterwards. But I, of course, still had a hard time remembering it. I could tell the story without crying. Of course, time has helped as well but I hugely recommend trauma therapy. Yes.
Scott
Trauma therapy. And in your case, specifically, EMDR trauma therapy.
Rachel
Yes.
Scott
And of course I have to put the disclaimer in here that we, you nor I are medical professionals and anyone who has been through trauma needs to consult their own physician and therapist and see what’s right for them because I’ve had many of my guests who have been through something traumatic have talked about EMDR therapy and how amazing it is, but it’s not for everyone. So you just have to kind of figure that out directly. How long ago did this happen?
Rachel
This was the end of 2018, so my kids are a little older now. I have a third child now, actually.
Scott
Congratulations!
Rachel
Thank you.
Scott
Is there any part of the story that we haven’t talked about that you want to mention?
Rachel
I think I worried that my children would be traumatized from it, but they don’t even remember it. Neither of them remember it. So that’s about it.
Scott
That’s amazing. Talia was three.
Rachel
Yeah.
Scott
I would think something like that happening, she would–
Rachel
Yeah. You would think it’d be a core memory. But no, she doesn’t.
Scott
Better that they don’t.
Rachel
Yes.
Scott
And a big thanks to the truck full of men who were in the right place at the right time.
Rachel
That’s right. I think that I wouldn’t always pull over when I see a stalled car, especially a burning vehicle. I think I probably would think, “Oh, let’s sway away from that because I am not a mechanical person. I don’t know how I would help.” But after this happened to me, I think it changed my perspective. There’s always something that you can do or even just offer because people like that – stopping their day to help a stranger – I think, helps us all to know that there’s good in the world and that there are good people, but also that I think it changes our– the next time that we see that, it might give us a second thought to stop and help.
Scott
Yeah, absolutely.
Rachel
Yeah.
Scott
But if you saw a car on fire, you would probably stop now.
Rachel
Yeah. Yeah.
Scott
Doing that though, you think that might retraumatize you?
Rachel
Maybe, yeah, it could.
Scott
But it’s kind of maybe coming full circle though. You were helped in that situation and now you can be the helper.
Rachel
A little redemptive, I would think. Yeah. Be able to help someone else.
Scott
Good job, mom. You did it!
Rachel
Thank you.
Scott
Thanks for sharing your story.
Rachel
Yeah, no problem. Whenever my kids are like, “Mommy, you never such-and-such.” I’m like, “I love you. Let me tell you, ‘I walked into a burning car for you and I would do it again.’”
Scott
You can see pictures of Rachel and her kids, as well as the burned-up car, in the episode notes at WhatWasThatLike.com/216.
I also had one more question for Rachel – did you ever figure out what happened, why the car caught on fire?
Rachel
Well, no. I don’t know exactly what happened, but I did some research and this specific make and model of that year that car was– it has happened before – it has spontaneously combusted for multiple people.
Scott
That would’ve been nice to know ahead of time.
Rachel
Yeah. But what are the odds? But it’s definitely made me not want to buy that car again. That’s for sure.
Scott
And we can’t say the make and model of Rachel’s car here in the podcast, but Rachel is in the What Was That Like private Facebook group and she can answer that question there. WhatWasThatLike.com/facebook
And in that group, the question we asked this week was: What’s your irrational fear? And I thought about the phrasing of that question actually. Because if you are genuinely afraid of something, is it really irrational? But anyway, that’s the question and people are interpreting it and answering it in their own way. That’s what we do in that group and I love it because we have some great discussions over there. And you’re welcome to join us. And if you join before midnight tonight, you can get in at a 50% discount! Just go to WhatWasThatLike.com/facebook.
Just kidding about the discount, it’s always free to join.
Graphics for this episode were created by Bob Bretz. Full episode transcription was created by James Lai.
And like we end every episode, we’re about to hear this week’s Listener Story. If you have an interesting story that you can tell in about 5-10 minutes, record it on your phone and email it to me – Scott@WhatWasThatLike.com.
This Listener Story is in keeping with today’s theme of a mother saving her child. And in this case, we get to hear from the child as well! The mother here is Kiona – she’s a professional birth worker, and she has a storytelling podcast called Birth As We Know it. Every episode is someone telling their story about giving birth – from conception to post-partum. And if you’re in the Seattle area and you need the best doula in town – that’s Kiona. Birth work is her passion and she’s attended more than 140 births. You can get in touch with her through her website – BirthAsWeKnowItPodcast.com.
Stay safe, and we’ll see you next time.
(Listener story)
Kiona
Hey Scott. This is the story where I, Kiona, had to give my son, Kairo, the Heimlich maneuver when he was–
Kairo
I’m right here.
Kiona
Yes. When he was just 3.5 years old.
Kairo
I thought I was 4.
Kiona
You were almost 4.
Kairo
I thought I was like 4.5.
Kiona
You were 3.5 because I was pregnant with her sister, Katana at the time. So Kairo, I’m going to start by telling the story and then I want you to tell me what it made you feel like when it was happening. Okay? For me, as your mom, I saw you playing on the bunk bed and you had a magnet. I remember taking the magnets earlier in the day, but you and Kavina snuck one magnet because you just wanted to keep playing with it. I didn’t know that you still had it. I was just cleaning your room and then I saw you playing around up on the top bunk, and then I was getting ready to leave the room.
Then, I looked at you and you’re, like, trying to cough. You’re pounding on your chest and stuff, and I’m like, “What’s wrong? What’s wrong?” I just heard (imitate gagging sound). That’s all I heard. So when I look at you, I freak out because you’re on the top bunk. As a mom, kids always put stuff in their mouths, right? So, usually a couple pats on the back is enough. But, at that moment, I did the few pats on the back, and it wasn’t working. And then I did it again and it wasn’t working, and I did it again and it wasn’t working, and I started getting scared. I knew that I had to act quickly because you were starting to turn purple and your neck was starting to get really veiny, which was showing me that you weren’t breathing. So what I did was at that point, while I was 7 months pregnant with your sister, I just picked you up off the ground and I started trying to give you the Heimlich maneuver.
In my mom brain, I was like, “Oh my gosh, he’s going to throw up all over the floor if I do this, and we’re on carpet.” So what I do is I run into our bedroom instead of your bedroom and go into our master bathroom.
Kairo
I remember that.
Kiona
You remember that. And then I’m, like, running past your grandma, running past your older sister, and running past your dad.
Kairo
And I remember you were just screaming, “Kairo’s choking!”
Kiona
Yes, I was screaming, “Kairo’s choking! Kairo’s choking!” I tried to do the Heimlich again. I did it twice and it didn’t work, and I was really scared. Then, when we were finally in the bathroom, we were above the bathtub and I changed the way I did it. I did the Heimlich, and then I also turned you upside down and patted your back hard that way. Do you remember that? I did that a few times. That is when the magnet finally came out. I didn’t know it was a magnet until it came out of your mouth. I’m going to cuss really quick because I remember saying, “It was a fucking magnet!” Do you remember hearing me say that? Yeah. And you were like, “Whoa, mom cussed.” I remember, right when it was about to come out of your mouth, your dad started calling 911 but, by the time they said, “Do you need us to send someone?”, it just came out of your mouth, and he was like, “No, the magnet just came out. It’s fine.” And guess how long all of that took? Three minutes.
Kairo
For me, it felt like 50 million years.
Kiona
Me too. It felt like a really long time for me too. So tell me how it felt for you. At what point did you realize that you were actually choking?
Kairo
When the magnet fell into my mouth, and then I was just trying to take it out with my tongue, I was like, “Where is it?” And then I started to cough and I was like, “Oh no, I’m choking.”
Kiona
How did it fall in your mouth?
Kairo
I was just going like this while I was laying down. Then, it slipped out of my hands.
Kiona
You were playing with it in the air above your face when you were laying down?
Kairo
Mmhmm. And then it just slipped out of my hands and it fell down my throat.
Kiona
What did it feel like to you when you were choking?
Kairo
It just felt really scary and I just felt like I was going to die. It just felt super weird.
Kiona
You felt like you were going to die?
Kairo
Yes.
Kiona
Tell me more about what that means.
Kairo
I could feel like my face turned to a different color, and then I was just super scared and I didn’t know what to do because I couldn’t breathe. I couldn’t really move my arms because all my bands were focused on my neck.
Kiona
You felt like you were just getting a lot of pressure in your neck or something?
Kairo
Mmhmm.
Kiona
Do you remember what it felt like when mommy was giving you the Heimlich, when I was squeezing you really tight?
Kairo
It just felt pulsing on my belly and then I could kind of feel it coming up. So when you did the other technique, I knew it would come out.
Kiona
You did? Was there any point when you were worried about whether or not it was going to work?
Kairo
It was at the first one.
Kiona
You knew that it was going to? How did you feel once the magnet came out?
Kairo
I was just relieved and I was going to– I don’t know if I did, but I felt like I was going to cry.
Kiona
Yeah, I felt like I was going to cry. You started crying when it came out a little bit. I was in so much shock that I couldn’t cry. I was, like, hesitant to put you down to sleep that night because I was like, “Oh my gosh, is he going to be okay? Did you have enough oxygen going to your brain during that time that we were doing the Heimlich” because you couldn’t breathe and it was obvious you couldn’t breathe. I remember getting a text from Papa, my dad, and he said, “Hey, what happened?” I told him what happened and I just started crying. I was crying and crying. I felt like such a horrible mom but, truly, I just did my best.
Kairo
You were. You actually saved my life.
Kiona
Yeah, I did. I’m happy I did because I love you and you’re so smart and kind and brave, and you’re really good at video games.
Kairo
Why don’t you want me to play them that often?
Kiona
Because you have to have a limitation, of course. But I love you. Thanks for sharing your story with me.
Kairo
You are welcome.
Kiona
Bye-bye. Mwah! One thing that I wish I knew before doing the Heimlich on Kairo was that, when you’re doing the Heimlich on a small child, you should actually kneel behind them while their feet are still on the ground because it makes the force of the Heimlich more useful rather than picking them up and trying to provide that force when they’re kind of ragdolls in your arms. So if any of you listeners need to do the Heimlich on a small child, I would just keep that in mind. All right. Thanks for listening!