If you have children, you’ve probably thought at some point, “Am I a good parent?”
It’s natural to question our own abilities sometimes. Do I spend enough time with my kids? Do they feel safe? Do they feel loved? Are they comfortable talking with me about anything that’s going on in their life?
My kids are adults now. When I think back to when they were growing up, there are things I would have done differently if I knew back then what I know now. But that’s not really fair though. I know I did the best I could at the time. And they still turned out to be great adults and I’m really proud of them.
My guest today is Naseem. She has 3 kids. And there was a time when she found herself wondering about how she was doing as a parent. Wondering if her children knew how much she loved them.
It’s interesting the thoughts that come into your head, when you’re being run over by a car.
Naseem’s book, The Unexpected Benefits of Being Run Over:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BW3LK86X/
If you’d like to contact Nassem, you can do that through her website:
Naseem’s Instagram:
Full show notes and pictures for this episode are here:
https://WhatWasThatLike.com/224
Graphics for this episode by Bob Bretz. Transcription was done by James Lai.
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Episode transcript (download transcript PDF):
If you have children, you’ve probably thought at some point, “Am I a good parent?”
It’s natural to question our own abilities sometimes. Do I spend enough time with my kids? Do they feel safe? Do they feel loved? Are they comfortable talking with me about anything that’s going on in their life?
My kids are adults now. When I think back to when they were growing up, there are things I would have done differently if I knew back then what I know now. But that’s not really fair though. I know I did the best I could at the time. And they still turned out to be great adults and I’m really proud of them.
My guest today is Naseem. She has 3 kids. And there was a time when she found herself wondering about how she was doing as a parent. Wondering if her children knew how much she loved them.
It’s interesting the thoughts that come into your head, when you’re being run over by a car.
Scott
This happened in 2018. How old were you at that time?
Naseem
I was 47. I had just turned 47.
Scott
Okay. I know you’re a wife and a mother. Who was in your family at the time? How old were your kids?
Naseem
Back in 2018, I had three kids that were 9, 11, and 13. I had two dogs at the time, and I think only one cat at that time. My family’s grown since. More cats now.
Scott
Interestingly, you included your pet descriptions, but didn’t mention your husband.
Naseem
Oh, I had one of those too. (Laughs)
Scott
Got one of those. Okay. Alright. What we need first is a quick recap. What happened the day before the accident? Because that’s kind of relevant.
Naseem
The day before the accident, I said it out loud that I was happy. It was a great day actually. It’s funny how life happens the day before the accident, I mentioned my kids’ ages. That’s a time of life where physically they need a lot of driving. There’s sports, there’s activities, there’s just this constant juggle. That day was a Sunday. My husband and I were doing the normal juggle and I had taken my son out to lunch, just the two of us – a little mother son bonding time. I like to do that with all of my kids. And he’s a really high EQ child person. He said, “Mom, how’s the new job going?” I had just started a job at Microsoft and the last job, the prior job, was very stressful and I was stressed all the time. So, he was very worried about what my mental state was like, and he said, “How’s the new job, mom?” And I said, “You know what, Jasper? It’s good. I’m happy.”
Scott
And this is an 11-year-old boy.
Naseem
Yeah.
Scott
What insight.
Naseem
He does. He’s really intuitive actually. When I was in the prior role, when I was very stressed, he would just come to me and say, “Mom, I see you walk out of your office and you just don’t look happy.” He could sense that I wasn’t the right and the usual happy-go-lucky state of mind that he had seen most of his life. Just having him ask and me answer that, I can remember that moment so vividly because I felt so good. I have started this new job. I reached this moment in my life where I was proud of who I was. Scott, I was a very insecure kid, probably through my 20s, and on this day, 47, I had three wonderful kids, a job I was happy with a great husband. I won’t forget him this time and I felt really good. That is a big deal for me. It was a big deal. Did I mention something else really funny happened that day? That evening, my son broke his arm playing soccer. He was doing a soccer tryout and, that evening, we had to go to the emergency room for him. The whole family was together. We’re all sitting in the emergency room while he is getting his cast and it was an oddly joyous moment. We were laughing about how it was our first ER visit as a family in a very light way because he was fine. It’s funny how that happened, not even 24 hours before the accident.
Scott
You said that because you said, “I’m happy.” Do you really think that you jinxed yourself? I mean, are you superstitious like that?
Naseem
I’m not superstitious, but I do notice the– I don’t know what the right word is, but I notice the timing and on some level– there’s this Indian saying or Indian thought – and I think this happens in many cultures – it’s like the evil eye. You don’t want to be too boastful and get bad energy. I’m not a religious person, but I just believe in goodness and equality and karma. I don’t know if, in my own mind, I was boasting so much that I jinxed myself with that but, rationally, I don’t believe that’s true. I don’t usually just say, “I’m happy.” I am happy, but I don’t usually just say, “I’m happy.”
Scott
Don’t say it now. Come on. (Laughs) It sounds like you recognize that there’s a correlation, but maybe not causation.
Naseem
Yes. Yeah.
Scott
Alright, so that sets the scene, so to speak. What happened on the day?
Naseem
On Monday, May 21st, 2018, I woke up, still very happy, feeling really good. I had to go into New York City. I live in New Jersey, went to New York for a meeting, and came home a little bit early. The day before, with my son going to the emergency room, me saying, “I’m happy,” my husband also got a flat tire in my car. So all these non standards. So that day, I went into New York with somebody dropping me off at the train, not driving to this train station, not driving home from the train station. I mentioned that because there were just all these non standards. So I got home from New York, got out at the train station and, instead of going to my car, I decided to start walking home and have my husband pick me up somewhere along the way because it was a beautiful, sunny day and I wanted to enjoy a little bit of that sunshine. I see my husband and, instead of, like, just catty-corner running across the street to him, I tell him to hold on and I walk to the nearest crosswalk and I cross the first crosswalk.
Then, I’m in the middle of crossing a second crosswalk when a car turned, hit me, and I saw the car coming. I was in the middle of the pedestrian crosswalk. I yelled out the car, hit me, and then stopped. I slammed my hand on the hood and everything froze. I actually thought to myself – I know this is ridiculous – I was like, “She’s hitting me today?? I feel so good. I’m happy.” And I was a little annoyed because I thought I’d be black and blue and late for dinner and have to deal with this hassle.
Scott
What kind of car was it?
Naseem
It was a big SUV.
Scott
Okay, so a big car then.
Naseem
Yeah, it was a big car.
Scott
So you hit the hood and then fell into the road. At that point, you’d think the driver would say, “Ooh, I hit somebody. I better stop and get out and see if they’re okay.”
Naseem
You would think so. In fact, when she first hit me, she actually did stop. I think maybe she was trying to flee the scene – again, I don’t really know. When she drove over me, my husband was watching. I was crossing the street to him. He said it was like a monster truck just bumping over me.
Scott
How far away was Wes? He was, like, across the intersection somewhere?
Naseem
It wasn’t even an intersection. It’s a residential road. So he was maybe 10-15 feet away. He was right there.
Scott
Oh, so it was just coincidence that he happened to be–
Naseem
He was picking me up.
Scott
Yeah. That’s why he was there – to pick you up after you crossed the street.
Naseem
Yeah. I could have just run across the street to him, but I wanted to cross in the crosswalks. So he was screaming, I was screaming. There were other witnesses screaming. Then, the car reversed.
Scott
So she’s already driven over you once. What part was she driving over you on? What body part?
Naseem
Yeah, the front and the back tires went over me. At that point, it was over my chest. Then, she reversed over me and I think that was the time she went over– it’s a little bit blurry if it was the head or the neck or the knees the second time, but she reversed and drove over me a second time. Again, the tires rolled over me twice and over my head and my neck. What was amazing is I wasn’t feeling any pain at that moment. I was just lost in thought. Again, everything was in slow motion and I was reflecting on my life. The first time she drove over me, I was trying to wriggle around. The second time, I knew something was wrong. I thought to myself, “This isn’t right. She should have stopped.” I could hear the way my husband was screaming and the way the other people were screaming. Not only were they screaming “Just stop!” in their voices, I could hear the agony that they were watching me die.
I started reflecting on my life, thinking about my kids. They were 9, 11, and 13 at the time. I didn’t want them to lose their mother. I wanted to be there for all of their big moments. We’re a very close family. And I thought to myself, “Why didn’t I write my kids letters? Are they going to know who I am? Are they going to feel my love when I’m gone?” Because I communicated it enough. Then, as I started to think back on the vacations and the fun times and all the laughs and the joy, I felt like, “You know what? They do know.” Because although I’d always been a working mom and still am a working mom, I am present when I’m with them. I try to be with them when I’m with them. So I thought to myself, “You know what? They do know who I am. They do know how much I love them and I don’t want to leave them, but it’s okay because we’ve had this rich life of joy as a family.”
But then I also thought to myself, “Scott, my kids might know, but the other people in my life probably have no idea. I haven’t told all of the other wonderful people that I come across – some acquaintances, some friends, colleagues – how impactful they’ve been, whether it was a small gesture or big gesture.” A lot of people probably don’t know that they made an impact in my life and they made my life better, and I felt a lot of regret for that in that moment. I felt like people deserve to know that they brought me joy and comfort and confidence and strength and all of the wonderful things that they brought to my life and I hadn’t told them. And that was regret.
Scott
That’s a lot of thinking to do.
Naseem
It’s a lot of thinking. It was a good 20 minutes in those 10-15 seconds
Scott
Right. And you were being dragged as well, right? Because wasn’t this on a sort of a hill?
Naseem
It was on a hill, yeah. I was also trying to wriggle around a little bit. And then, as that moment was ending, when I was in my head thinking all of these thoughts, the car went forward and drove over me a third time and that’s when I got a little bit of the drag when the tires went over me once that time. So the tires went over me five times, over my head and neck, over my chest, over my knees. Those were the big impact points. The car finally stopped, but I was stuck underneath the car – thankfully not underneath the tire, but stuck right under the middle of the car. Then, we had to wait for the ambulance, the EMT, and the police to lift the car off of me so they could longboard me.
Scott
Does that mean the driver actually stopped then and put it in park?
Naseem
Everybody was screaming, “Just stop driving!” And the driver did finally stop and put it in park and got out of the car and threw a tantrum like a 2-year-old with no concern for me.
Scott
Who was the driver? Or can you just describe this person?
Naseem
It was four o’clock in the afternoon. She was early 60s. Had her faculties just clearly made a lot of bad decisions.
Scott
Yeah, it sounds like a panic situation, sort of. When you realize you’ve actually struck someone with your car, what do you do? Nobody’s been in that situation before and, well, she has now.
Naseem
I’m getting a little ahead in the story, but I’ll share that I actually held no ill will towards her because she didn’t mean to run me over three times. I mean, that’s a lot of bad judgment, but it wasn’t intentional. People used to ask, “Was it a hit?” Because it doesn’t make sense that she would keep running over me. Wasn’t a hit.
Scott
You’re this high-powered Microsoft executive. You got a target on your back. Right? Google was coming after you.
Naseem
I wasn’t that important. I’m still not, but it wasn’t a hit. She just made a lot of bad decisions.
Scott
Okay. So you’re stuck under there under the car. Are you not able to get out because of your injuries or are you kind of trapped or squeezed in the undercarriage and the road?
Naseem
Might be all of the above. But what I can remember is that I could not move. I could wiggle my fingers and my toes, but I could not move my body. I physically just could not move my body and I didn’t know what my injuries were. I just knew that I was starting to feel pain. My face felt like it was ripped off – it was the gravel in the road. I laid there in a pool of blood that I just watched getting bigger and bigger. I couldn’t turn my head. I couldn’t move my head. I couldn’t move any of my body. I remember all I wanted to do was just curl up in a little ball and just kind of take shelter in myself, but I couldn’t move at all. I partly also wanted to just close my eyes and let go. I had been fighting to stay alive through the car running over me and over me. Then, at some point, I think I was so tired and I thought that I was going to die. I had those last thoughts and I just wanted to close my eyes and be done.
Scott
Isn’t it amazing how quickly life can change? 30 seconds earlier, you were just carefree walking across the road legally in the crosswalk, importantly, and now you’re ready to just let go. It’s amazing. Did Wes come over? Was he communicating with you while you were under the car?
Naseem
He was screaming. He was screaming, “Oh my God, that’s my wife! Just stopped driving!” Once the driver stopped and she got out of the car – Wes is the nicest guy, very considerate – he looked at the driver who seemed to have no regard for me or concern as to how I was doing, and said, “Don’t you even care what’s happened to her?” And she said nothing. She was just screaming like a toddler. Wes was trying to communicate. She was so loud, people had to move her to the side so they could talk to me. There was another person there who started asking me questions – I call it busy work – trying to just keep me conscious and alive, and she successfully did it. I stayed in the moment. I was ready to close my eyes and drift, and she kept me there. I knew she was giving me busy work, but it did help me realize that I am alive. I never know if I should be embarrassed about this or not, but then I realized I was alive and then all of those thoughts as a busy working mother who likes to stay in control come rushing into my head like, “Honey.” I am asking Wescott if he’s got my phone, my purse, and all those things that really don’t matter, but felt like they really mattered.
Scott
The first responders show up. The first question you ask them…
Naseem
Yeah. So once they got me out from underneath the car, let me mention to your listeners that while they were getting me out from underneath the car, they had to put airbags and lift the car off me. I realized that my skirt was hiked up and I started worrying about what kind of underwear I was wearing and if I lost my shoes and all of that silly vain stuff. But it’s funny how real life just comes back too in those moments. They finally lift the car off me. They put me on a longboard, and the first thing that I said to the EMTs was, “Look, I’m vain. Is my face ripped off? Because it felt like the whole right side of my face was gone.” And they said, “It’s not, thankfully.” I mean, I had a lot of scars and needed stitches all over my face and surgery on my eye but, luckily, it was not ripped off the way I felt it was ripped off. I thought that it was gone and that my brain was bleeding out because the pool of blood that I was laying in was deep and expansive.
Scott
Do you know where the blood was mostly coming from?
Naseem
Well, I think there were a number of cuts on my face. My ear had a bad gash. My cartilage was falling out. I had a deep cut in my eye, so a lot was coming from my eye.
Scott
Yeah, all head injuries, which tend to bleed a lot anyway.
Naseem
Yeah. I mean, there were body injuries, but I think it was all the head injuries that was the blood.
Scott
Obviously, they brought you to the hospital immediately and Wes had to make some phone calls.
Naseem
Yeah, he did. This was one of the hardest parts of that. Journey. We had to call my kids, call my 13-year-old daughter and say, “Mom was in an accident,” and that’s a lot for a 13-year-old. She was home. We actually had a brand new babysitter that started that day, so she had to come down and tell this babysitter and her two brothers that I was in an accident and get everybody to the hospital because Wes didn’t know the extent of my injuries. He watched me get run over three times. He didn’t know if I was going to survive. He didn’t know what the extent was.
Scott
Were you still conscious when they loaded you in the ambulance?
Naseem
Yes, I was conscious the entire time.
Scott
Okay. So at least he knew you weren’t dead on the scene anyway.
Naseem
Yes, he did know that because I was also asking for my iPhone. He knew there was some me still in there.
Scott
That’s the Naseem he knows. Yeah.
Naseem
But having to tell my daughter that, I know, was really hard on him and really hard on her. In fact, it was so jarring to her. She went down. As she was telling her brothers, they told me that she just started laughing like they were all in disbelief. They were all like, “Haha. No, this can’t be real.”
Scott
Sometimes, that’s how you deflect really bad trauma – with humor. That’s really interesting. How did everyone get to the hospital? Your kids aren’t old enough to drive.
Naseem
Yeah. My new babysitter brought them. My daughter navigated on her iPhone, Google Maps or whatever, and directed her to the hospital and up to the emergency room where they then had to wait for an hour with no news. My husband didn’t know how I was, they didn’t know, and I think it was probably one of the scariest hours of their life,
Scott
I’m sure.
Naseem
When I got to the hospital, there was a team of doctors and they started doing every test you can imagine, I was conscious. So, when they asked me what happened and the police were there, I said, “I was run over three times. The tires drove over me five times.” It was horror everywhere. Now people were preparing for the worst. They did test after test and, miraculously, I broke no bones. There were no broken bones. There was no internal bleeding. There were lots of issues, but nothing was broken.
Scott
It’s amazing to me that a car tire, especially a large car, an SUV can run over your head and without having some kind of a skull crack or something.
Naseem
I know, it’s crazy.
Scott
There must have been jokes since then about how hardheaded you are.
Naseem
Actually, no, thankfully. Funny enough, you’re the first to say that. After the accident, in that first week, I was like, “Did it really happen?” Because how could a tire drive over my head and neck? I remember it happening, but it made no sense that it happened. About seven days after the accident, all the bruises started showing up and you could see the tire marks on my neck. I had a soft spot in my head, and then I had all the tire marks on my neck. Scott, I was so excited because I thought, “Oh my gosh, this is my proof. I didn’t imagine it. I remember it happening, but it made no sense that it happened.”
Scott
Right. It wasn’t some kind of hallucination or something.
Naseem
Yeah.
Scott
And just to mention, we’ll have pictures of those, injuries, the tire marks and everything. That’ll all be in the episode notes. Can you talk about the first time the kids came in and saw you in the hospital?
Naseem
Yeah. Another very tough moment. I thought it was going to be just this joyous, excited, “Yay! Mom’s alive!” I’m alive. Once the doctors told me nothing was broken and Wescott came in to see me, the first thing I said was, “I want to see the kids. Bring the kids in. I thought about them the whole time while the tires were running over me.” In many ways, I feel like just getting back to them for giving me the strength to make it through. That was the first thing I wanted – to see my kid. I had no idea what I looked like.
Scott
So you hadn’t seen yourself in a mirror yet?
Naseem
No, I didn’t know I was unrecognizable. I didn’t know how battered I was. I just thought I wanted to see my kids.
Scott
Yeah. You had mentioned that your phone’s facial recognition didn’t work.
Naseem
No, it didn’t. My husband couldn’t hold the phone to me. It didn’t recognize me for, I think, a couple weeks. So the nurse was saying to me, “You sure you want to see the kids? Maybe wait a while.” And my husband, Wescott, was saying, “Maybe, wait.” I just insisted I wanted to see my kids. So they went and got the kids and they were terrified. My youngest son at the time – who I call my cozy bunny – I called him to come next to me and he was afraid of me. My middle child just broke out into tears and my oldest, she held it together, but I could see the pain and the horror. They couldn’t look at me. They couldn’t talk. They didn’t even want to talk to me. I mean, it’s a lot to see your mom unrecognizable and battered and broken. They went home and they asked my daughter, who had to be the one to tuck them in for a while, “Is life ever going to be the same?” And she told them “Yes,” but she had no idea that she, all of a sudden, had to become a parent and an adult and a caretaker at 13.
Scott
Were you admitted to the hospital?
Naseem
No. I was never admitted to the hospital because nothing was broken. They just kept me in the emergency room in the triage area. I did have to have stitches on my face and my ear. My body was all cut up and I had to have some eye surgery. But I did all of that from the ER. They never actually admitted me. So, 24 hours after the accident, I was home. I couldn’t walk, I couldn’t see, I couldn’t move, I couldn’t think, but there I was back home and I thought to myself, “Is it really so bad? Did it really happen? If I didn’t need to stay in the hospital, am I exaggerating this ailment and this brokenness I’m feeling? Because wouldn’t they keep me in the hospital if it was really that bad?” But it was really that bad.
Scott
It’s just amazing. You’ve had no broken bones and no internal bleeding either.
Naseem
I know. I mean, lots of soft tissue. I mean, I have several disc issues in my back and neck. I had nerve damage toward my MCL. I mean, there’s a whole number of issues – all soft tissue stuff.
Scott
All of it can be handled in a home recovery. You wouldn’t need to be monitored in the hospital the whole time.
Naseem
Exactly.
Scott
So here’s the thing. I will mention that you’ve written a book about this and I’ve read the book and it’s great. Your whole life, you have been a problem solver. You approach something that you know there’s always a solution, but now you can’t see, you can’t stay awake, you can’t walk, your skin’s been torn off, you can’t tolerate light or noise. You mentioned that you have what you called an underlying disorientation. Can you elaborate on that? What does that mean?
Naseem
I went from, as you noted, being a problem solver– I could almost take any situation. I loved taking a situation and figuring out where to start, how to organize this, figure out what’s next along this journey to get to goal, and that was a source of joy. Doing that in chaos, having a hundred things coming at me, like, I thrived in that.
Scott
That’s what made you good at your job, right?
Naseem
Yeah. I’d built a muscle around that. I think that’s why I was able to have a tough job and be present with my kids. I had really mastered this juggling and problem solving. Then, all of a sudden, I couldn’t think. When I say I couldn’t think, I had this fear in my brain and this paralysis where simple tasks– and I give the example of filling out an account form for a 9-year-old, which is name, address, tell me a little bit about your kid. My husband asked me to fill it out. This was probably 2-3 weeks after the accident. I laid in bed and cried for hours because just the need to do something, be responsible for something, somebody having expectations was this enormous weight I couldn’t handle.
Scott
I mean, what a contrast from just earlier. Something like that would’ve been trivially simple for you.
Naseem
Done in 30 seconds and not thought twice.
Scott
That must have made you kind of question everything like, “Is this how it’s going to be from now on?”
Naseem
It really did. I thought, “If I can’t solve problems, how am I going to go back to work? How am I going to be of value if I can’t be the juggler anymore?” Actually, much to my surprise– and this was through the journey – I know we’ll talk a little bit more about it. I had to learn how to accept myself as a different person with different skills, so I can’t juggle chaos like I used to. However, I can get a little deeper in a few things now. So I reframe my capabilities to the me of today, not comparing or judging the me of today to that old pre-accident me, and I found that, because of some of these new habits and ability to share and thinking more deeply, I’ve brought a different skillset to work that has, funny enough, made me more successful.
Scott
That’s interesting.
Naseem
Yeah, it was a big surprise.
Scott
Would you say, I mean, the way you just described it, it sounds like you used to be able to go a mile wide and six inches deep and now you’re like six inches wide and a mile deep on topics.
Naseem
That’s a great way to explain it.
Scott
Okay, cool. Shortly after you got home, of course, the hospital isn’t responsible for washing your hair and you had gravel and blood, and Asha I did that for you.
Naseem
Yeah. So that was another really hard thing. I asked my kids to help with not recognizing the trauma that would inspire, but my daughter washed my hair. My hair was all sticky and full of blood and gravel. I normally have straight hair. I had, like, crazy curly hair with all of that blood and gravel, and my daughter had to wash it. She actually had to wash it a couple of times for me to get it all out. That was so traumatic and hard that, when she sees me now with crazy hair, it is a little triggering for her because it takes her back to that very difficult moment.
Scott
Seeing you like that, yeah, that would be. You mention in the book that the specific hair washing– neither you nor her remember that. Is that like blocking that trauma you think?
Naseem
I know. I wonder if it is. In fact, not only is the hair washing that we don’t remember. We had taken a vacation two weeks before the accident. My daughter doesn’t really remember it.
Scott
Wow.
Naseem
And the trauma therapist said that’s often very common that things adjacent to a tough moment are sometimes forgotten, because you’re just trying to block out the period.
Scott
Have you and Wes and the kids all had therapy as part of this?
Naseem
We didn’t actually have family therapy, which probably could have helped at that. In that first year, I started seeing a trauma therapist soon after the accident. That was kind of forced on me because, as I talk a lot about in the book, I’m not somebody that accepts help. I was somebody that solved problems and gave help. So just the act of people being kind and wanting to drop off dinners and drive my kids and help me was so embarrassing and so uncomfortable, and I did not want anybody to see me in that broken state. I did start seeing a trauma therapist though.
A couple wonderful things happened with the trauma therapist. Wes saw the trauma therapist with me in the beginning, the first couple times. My husband is wonderful in so many ways, but he really just put my healing first above all else. We would talk about the disbelief in those first few sessions because I just couldn’t believe it. I would need to hear him tell me over and over again that it did really happen, that he was there and I was run over three times and the tires did go over me five times, and because I couldn’t believe that I had survived and I couldn’t believe that I deserved all of that kindness people were trying to show me.
Scott
There was an interesting interaction with your hairdresser. Can you talk about that? Because it’s related to having people help you.
Naseem
Yeah. Let me share with your listeners how I was able to change and let people help me. The trauma therapist I started seeing was excellent and she taught me about the art of Kintsugi, which is taking a broken piece of pottery and putting it back together with gold inlay and recognizing that the cracks in the vase are just part of its journey and appreciating those cracks as part of the journey.
Scott
Highlighting them instead of hiding them.
Naseem
Yes. So she was teaching me about that. At that same time, my brother, who I’m very close to, lost his dog. It was a dog he absolutely adored. It was his sunshine. When my brother lost his dog, all I could think was, “I want to help him. How do I help make his day better, make him feel better?” Because he’s in pain from losing his dog. He would say, “Sister, you just got run over three times. Don’t worry about me. I’m fine.” But I did worry about him even though I couldn’t see, and I couldn’t actually pick up the phone to call him or bear any light or stand or do anything. The few coherent thoughts I could have were about my poor brother in pain because he lost his dog. Finally, I realized that, just like I needed to help my brother, people needed to help me because the accident didn’t just happen to me, it happened to everyone that loved me. So that recognition along with this idea of Kintsugi and accepting my cracks as part of my journey really changed my approach to my friends and community and how I interacted and shared what was going on.
I started letting people know what issues, pains, all of the different challenges I was facing that I initially was hiding and telling my kids or Wes to answer the door, have people go away because I didn’t want to see anybody. I started letting people in. I started telling them what was going on and I started realizing that, when I used my language and talked about it, not as a victim, but as part of my journey, this is what I’m dealing with, people started sharing what they were dealing with in their journeys. Everybody’s going through something, whether it is an illness, cancer, or a lost job. Whatever the challenge, everybody’s going through something. We all have things to navigate and, most of the time, we don’t have the opportunity to share it and we don’t really feel comfortable sharing it. I think it’s not a cultural norm to share things that seem like – in my old persona – weakness. Sharing my problems was a weakness and getting to change my approach and start to open up to people around me was so rewarding. It allowed me to accept their help, which was not only a kindness to me, but candidly, it’s a kindness to other people because they needed an active part in my healing because, again, the accident didn’t just happen to me, it happened to everyone that loved me.
Scott
Right. And that’s what your hairdresser told you?
Naseem
Oh, yes, that’s right. Sorry, I knew there’s something I’m missing.
Scott
Circling back here.
Naseem
Yeah. A couple months after the accident, I went to get my hair done and I was telling her about the journey and how great my kids had been in helping me and supporting me, and just being part of the recovery journey, she hugged me and started crying and thanked me for letting my kids in and letting people in. She mentioned that her mom had cancer and never talked about it, never shared, so she didn’t get the opportunity to help, and it really was so moving and such valuable reinforcement that I wasn’t burdening the people in my life by this new openness and vulnerability, but actually helping them. That was a very impactful moment.
Scott
Did you ever find out what actually happened that day? Why did this woman– was she just a bad driver?
Naseem
Yes, I think she was just a bad driver. And no, I never actually found out what happened. When I did see the woman about four or five weeks after the accident at the courthouse, I felt no ill will. As I mentioned before, she didn’t mean to run over me three times. However, when I saw her, she was standing just a few feet away from me. I was walking with a cane and bandaged and I had big glasses on because I couldn’t bear light. My face was all bruised. She’s a few feet away and didn’t look at me or my husband, who she had seen. I was also there with my daughter. She didn’t look at us. She didn’t acknowledge us. Even if she couldn’t apologize for legal reasons, I just expected some warmth, some compassion, some “I didn’t mean to hurt you” gesture. When I got nothing from her, it’s like I fell off a cliff that day. I just lost it. It’s not that I had all my marbles together to begin with at that moment, but the few that I had in my jar just broke. I was so hurt and disappointed and angry and sad that this human being did this to me and didn’t care.
Scott
Yeah, and you’re right. She probably was advised by her attorney to not say something or admit responsibility or anything like that. I mean, even just turning and smiling or something or anything would’ve been hopeful.
Naseem
Yeah. All I really wanted was something. I actually saw her 3-4 years later. The insurance lawyer needed to depose me and I actually didn’t know she was going to be there, but she was there. I was walking around the room introducing myself to everyone when she walked in. I didn’t want to be rude to her, so I went and introduced myself and shook her hand and her lawyer’s hand. I remember, when I shook her hands, I was even then hoping to get a little squeeze or some eye contact or something that showed me she felt remorse.
Scott
And that was years later. Still nothing.
Naseem
Yeah. That was years later. And when she spoke about the accident that day when they were deposing her, she doubled down on that. She tried to argue that I wasn’t in the crosswalk, that it couldn’t have really happened. I think that’s her defense mechanism.
Scott
You mentioned that you saw her in the courthouse. Was there a criminal trial? What were the proceedings afterward for her liability?
Naseem
She got a ticket for a failure to yield to a pedestrian and lost her license for 10 days.
Scott
10 day loss of license?
Naseem
Yes. And she didn’t have insurance either. She had forced insurance. So luckily, I had Uninsured Motorist to cover my injuries.
Scott
So she had insurance, but just the bare minimum that is legally required and it’s not going to cover all of your–
Naseem
It covered nothing.
Scott
And you had monumental expenses, I’m sure.
Naseem
Yes, there were some expenses.
Scott
How long before you went back to work?
Naseem
I went back to work about two months after the accident which I will say, from a physical recovery, even a mental recovery was way too soon. All of my doctors actually were advising against it. I had a lot of doctors that I would see on speed dial. They all said I needed more time, but I wanted to go back.
Scott
That’s your character, right?
Naseem
Yeah. I went back to work and it took all my energy and I really couldn’t make it through the day. There were a lot of bad things that I think my family had to deal with because I put so much energy into working eight hours. I had nothing left for them in that first year. I needed about 16 hours of sleep. My body just needed to heal. I couldn’t even stay awake all day at work. However, my nanny, my babysitter that had started the first day when I had the accident said to me that, when I went back to work, the kids were like different kids. I think they finally felt that life was going to return to a calmer, happier, more predictable place than for those eight weeks.
Scott
It’s interesting that she noticed that. You have a theory that Starbucks saved your life.
Naseem
I do.
Scott
How did that work?
Naseem
As we discuss, it doesn’t make sense that I was run over three times and did not break a bone. I think it’s because, for about 15 years prior to that day, or I should say 13 years since I was pregnant with my first child, I was drinking a Starbucks chai latte, like a venti chai latte, every day. That’s a lot of milk every day for 15 years. So I think I must have very strong bones and that’s how Starbucks saved my life. I do really need to tell Starbucks about that to see if I can get free Starbucks for life.
Scott
Yeah. They should give you something for that. You’re promoting them.
Naseem
Yeah, but there’s no logical reason for why I didn’t break any bones.
Scott
The anniversary of the accident, you have called it Unbreakable Day. What’s the story of how you came up with that name?
Naseem
We decided, at some point, a few months after the accident that we wanted a happy story. This accident wasn’t going to be what ruined our life. So when the first anniversary came, we knew that we wanted to celebrate it in some way, and we thought about calling it Unbreakable Day because since I didn’t break any bones, everyone would call me unbreakable. But it just felt maybe a little too boastful, like too big.
About a week before the anniversary, we still hadn’t figured out what we wanted to call the day. We were in a Basquiat exhibit. I was with my husband and some other friends, and we’d been talking about, “What are we going to call this day?” And then, all of a sudden, we see this Basquiat painting with the word “Unbreakable.” And it just felt, “You know what? That’s a sign. It just needs to be unbreakable.” So we embraced “Unbreakable.” We call it Unbreakable Day. Every year, we celebrate not only that I survived, we celebrate that we all survive, that we all navigate these tough moments. We take a second to thank the people that help us through those tough moments.
I think, so often, we shove those tough moments and those traumas in the closet, we don’t want to talk about them. We don’t want to be a downer. However, there’s so much that we learn from those moments. There’s so much strength that we find within ourselves often to navigate that, and there’s so many people that show up for us in those moments. If we never take a moment or two to recognize that tough moment, we don’t get to recognize the beautiful impacts of the people that helped us. We don’t get to recognize how much we have grown. It doesn’t mean the tough moment wasn’t tough, it doesn’t eliminate any of the pain of a tragedy, but it does allow you to, I think, move forward and take something from that complexity.
Scott
Did you have any trouble acknowledging that you have PTSD or were you actually diagnosed with that?
Naseem
I was diagnosed with PTSD, but I think I had no idea what it meant, so it was easy to say, “I have PTSD.” To me, PTSD was an issue in my head. I would get scared. It was a mind-thought triggering issue. What I didn’t understand is that PTSD is about an automatical response because I thought, “Look, I have two master’s degrees. I used to be a big problem solver, a juggler. I’m not smarter than your average cookie. I can think my way through this.” I just thought, “I will think my way through this. I will get better and I will stop having panic attacks and triggers” just because I’ve got a positive attitude. Unfortunately, it does not work that way, and it took me a long time to figure that out. It actually ended up being a sideline conversation on a soccer field with another woman who was telling me about her PTSD and articulating how it is this automatical response and how she’s working through it. That’s when the light bulb went off.
My doctors, I think, had been telling me that, but I always still thought I would think my way out of it. But once I realized that there is this physiological memory that I have to respect and accept and honor that is trying to keep me safe in a way, once I realized that, I was actually able to let myself off the hook a little bit because I had thought maybe my mind isn’t as strong as I think it is if I can’t let this go. Because I can stand on the side of the road and I can see no cars are coming but the fact that my heart goes racing when I try to cross is ridiculous. I know better, and I thought I know better. Like, how can I be this silly? But once I understood what PTSD is, and it’s not just managing your thoughts, it enabled me to give myself a little bit of grace and that was really helpful.
Scott
That’s a big thing.
Naseem
It was a big thing.
Scott
I’m always interested in tattoos that have meaning or significance. Can you talk about yours?
Naseem
The first tattoo? I had one tattoo before the accident. I have several now, and many of them are things that I don’t want to forget. I’ve learned so much. I’ve gained so many insights. I don’t live enlightened. Scott, I wish I could remember it all the time, but there are some lessons and things that I wanted to hold onto. Some are simple and not so profound. Like I have one that says “Jo Viva” and three stars for my three kids because, when I was underneath the car, the joy of life with my kids is one of the things that kept me going, kept me wriggling, kept me doing whatever it was that somehow got me out of there.
And then there is another one that is “ichigo ichie”, which is like one moment, one time from the Japanese tea ceremonies. It means the people we are right now, we will never be again. So let’s be fully present. That one has been really important to me because, sometimes, as I said, I’m not always enlightened and, sometimes, I think, well, I know better. Why didn’t I say or do that that day with that person? But then I remember if I didn’t know to do that, then I can’t fault myself for it. So, many of the things that I’ve learned, that I’ve incorporated in this post-trauma me, it’s a way to live that I can’t fault myself for not living sooner, because I just didn’t know.
Scott
Right. And now you know.
Naseem
It’s another way I give myself kindness. And then my daughter and I have matching Unbreakables. And then there’s another one I got of a Dandelion, which is a reminder to slow down, appreciate the environment, the things around you. It’s similar to the “ichigo ichie”, but it reminds me of a day– I said to my trauma therapist, I was like, “I can’t do anything. I can’t think. I couldn’t see my phone. I couldn’t bear light.” She said, “You’re going to have to slow down and just take a walk with a cane. Just enjoy the things around you.” I remember taking a walk near my house and noticing dandelions. I loved dandelions as a kid, but I couldn’t remember the last time I had noticed a dandelion, and I didn’t want to forget that. I need to notice the dandelions.
Scott
That’s almost literally the phrase, “Slow down and smell the flowers,” right?
Naseem
Yeah, it really is. There’s a lot of truth to it, a lot of value to it.
Scott
I’ve read your book called The Unexpected Benefits of Being Run Over, which is a really interesting title. I really admire that title because that’s a hook. People are going to be drawn into that – and I was, for sure. What was your purpose in writing the book?
Naseem
When the accident happened, I was in the hospital and the nurses and doctors found out I didn’t break any bones, they kept saying, “You need to pay it forward.” And I thought, “I can’t open my eyes. Don’t put this pressure of paying it forward on me..” But it did plant a seed. So I started thinking about how I can be a little bit better. So what I decided was I was going to share some of the things that I learned with the people around me. So, on the first anniversary, I sent out an email to my community with, “Here’s some things that I’ve learned from the journey.” And I was like, “Okay, done. Paid it forward. I’ve shared my insights.”
About two years after that, we were in COVID lockdown and I realized that some of the things that I had learned navigating this journey would probably be of value to other people. So, I thought about how to publish what I call my sermon section, here are my lessons, because I had no interest in publishing a book that gives all the gory details of my life. There was no part of me that had any interest or any belief that my life was interesting enough to have people want to read about it. I thought I’ve learned some really valuable stuff, let me share that. However, as I shared my lessons and talked about the book, it became really clear that, to really feel and find the value in those lessons, the context of the journey was important. So I started writing the book and it probably took me a few weeks, less than a month to write 60% of the book, and then another two years to figure out what are the right details to keep in and to take out because I didn’t want to give gratuitous details. We’re all so busy. I wanted to share what you needed to know to get the value.
Scott
Yeah, it’s a great book and it’s a fairly quick read.
Naseem
On purpose.
Scott
Yeah. We’ll have links to that. And it’s available, of course, on Amazon or wherever you want to buy books and all the information about you if people want to contact you is on your website.
Naseem
Yes. You can find me at naseemrochette.com, but I know that’s probably hard to spell, so you can also find me at lifeunbreakable.com – takes you to the same place.
Scott
From hearing you talk about it, it sounds like this whole experience is a net positive for you.
Naseem
Yes, it is. And it’s funny you should say that because net positive– I think of it in a couple ways. I did a timeline recently. Someone was doing an exercise and they said, “Put the biggest moments of your life on a line, a chronology, with a negative on the bottom and the positive on the top.” I remember thinking the accident was on the top. I can’t look at it as a bad thing. I survived, and I’m a different person. I have limitations and I have elements, and I have things that are tough, but I survived. I have more insight and that’s allowed me to have more joy and more connection. But what I also think about when you use the phrase “net positive” is how important the way we frame things is. Even talking about my journey– when I talked about Kintsugi and the cracks, it gave me a way to express what I was going through not as a victim, but as, “This is my journey,” and just the language we use and how we frame the words, whether it’s a positive bias and focusing on that positive bias, or actively choosing not to include the words of a negative bias.
I could say it could have been the day that I almost died. I’m choosing to look at it as the day that I lived. I could focus on the fact that I don’t juggle, or I can reframe and appreciate that I can go much deeper now into a subject or so. It’s about being kind to ourselves. It’s about, I think, driving a positive energy for other people as well because, if I went into every conversation with, “Oh my God, I was run over by a car and it’s horrible and I can’t do this and I can’t do that,” that just brings everybody down.
Scott
Yeah. Nobody wants to hear that.
Naseem
Right. And I could say the same things like, “I was run over by a car and it was terrible and I can’t do this, but I can do that.” To me, that’s the net positive.
Scott
One thing Naseem and I didn’t talk about in our conversation is the letter she wrote her kids – AFTER the accident – and what their response was to that letter. It’s all in her book though. In the episode notes I’ll have a link to the book, as well as pictures of Naseem and her injuries. That’s all at WhatWasThatLike.com/224.
All right – I have an update that a lot of listeners have been asking about. Episode 221 was with Brandon, and we talked about his job as a 911 dispatcher. During our conversation, we played a 911 audio of a call that Brandon had just taken recently – it’s mostly the sounds of a woman screaming, and it’s really terrifying. But at the time, the call could not be connected to anyone, so it was unknown what was really going on. Brandon recently had this update.
And again as a content warning – part of this update is, we’re gonna hear the 911 call again. If you have kids in the car, or if you yourself don’t want to hear it, fast forward about 3 ½ minutes. Here’s Brandon.
Brandon
In regards to the unknown caller short episode, I have found out some further info. I’ve been trying to wait a little longer before saying anything. For that, I’ll tell you about it and you’ll understand here in a bit. Before I go into that though, I wanted to play the call again so it is a bit fresh on everyone’s mind to set this up, as you’ll hear in the call, because I leave the timestamp in. The call came in on Friday, May 30th, a little after 1:30 PM. I was the person taking the call
Automated Voice
Friday, May 30th, 2025. 1332 and 30 seconds.
Brandon
- What’s the address of your emergency?
Caller
(Screaming in background)
Brandon
Hello?
Caller
(Screaming in background)
Brandon
Hello?
Caller
(Screaming in background)
Brandon
Hello? What’s the address there?
Caller
(Screaming in background)
Brandon
What’s the address there?
Caller
(Screaming in background)
Brandon
Tell me what the address is there.
Caller
(Sobbing loudly in background)
Brandon
Ma’am. Try to tell me what the address is there.
Caller
(Sobbing loudly in background)
Brandon
Ma’am, I want to send you some help, but you have to tell me where you’re at.
Caller
(Sobbing loudly in background, with repeated thudding sound)
Brandon
Hello?
Caller
(Moaning in anguish)
Brandon
Hello.
Caller
(Sobbing & moaning in anguish)
Brandon
Hello.
Caller
You fucked up recovery! (Sobbing and moaning in anguish)
(Inaudible)
Brandon
Hello.
Caller
(Sobbing)
Brandon
To go back over this again, or for those who didn’t hear this the first time, this was called in on a disconnected cell phone. It was hard to tell if they meant to call 911 or if it was a butt dial type of thing. After hearing this now for probably well over a dozen times, I think it was some sort of mistaken dial just because of how the person screaming was distant from the phone, but possibly less likely, but still a possibility. The person calling did mean to call, but just put the phone down directly after dialing. One thing is for certain. There’s no doubt that the person is in a large amount of distress. When I was first listening to it, I fully believed that the person was being assaulted or possibly even sexually assaulted, but because of this being a disconnected device that was calling, I could never get a good location. The ping on the phone kept moving, even though it didn’t at all sound like they were walking, running, or in a car. It sounded like they were inside of a room.
The pings were all in a specific area, but the area was several blocks or more in diameter. In this area are a ton of houses and even more apartments. A call was sent up to check the area. Really that was all that could be done. Officers went around the area and all they could really do is listen or look to see if anyone was in distress. The chances of that were very slim. Even more slim was getting any sort of subscriber info on the phone because it was no longer attached to a cell phone carrier.
I got back to work after my weekend and immediately checked to see if anything was found. Nothing was. I was hopeful, but not at all surprised due to all the things I’ve talked about. For days and longer after that, I was searching to see if anyone close by or even further out reported any sort of assault or sexual assault, missing persons, kidnappings, anything like that at all that would match up and maybe bring this to a close, nothing similar was found. I had just about given up hope on anything and was just about to put out videos in the hopes that they might go viral and they would reach the ears of someone that might possibly know something that went on or could tell the voice of the caller.
A couple of weeks after I took the call, I was working in police radio – the same one that was in the area where the call was placed – and noticed there were officers on a follow-up call for something they responded to the day before. Now the next bid, I can’t go into exact specifics, mainly because it can’t really be absolutely 100% verified, but a lot of it matches up. In one of the many apartment buildings that are around there, a worker was there and, as he was walking by an apartment, he smelled something coming from it. They ended up making an entry and saw someone not responsive. It was a man. They immediately backed out of the apartment and called police. Officers got there and entered the apartment and they ended up finding two people deceased, a man and a woman. After their initial investigation, no foul play was detected. Evidence there supported a double overdose. The reasons I think this might be it, the timing seemed pretty close, if not spot on.
They believed the bodies had been there for a while, likely more than a week. There was also likely a third person that was there too, which may have been the man that was talking during the call, the part in the original call where I thought the female said, “You fucked up my ovaries.” Knowing what I know now and listening again, I believe she actually said, “You fucked up recovery.” So what I think happened, and this is fully speculation based on the limited amount of info that I have, is that the male DOA that they found probably had already overdosed and was likely already dead. The female was obviously freaking out, likely because the male had overdosed. The male that was there and was still alive was likely trying to get the female off the deceased male. From there, the female probably did some of the drugs that the male had done and she also overdosed. The third person in the apartment probably just left before that or just after it happened.
All this seems to fit the location, the timing, what was set on the call. It all just seems to fit, but again, I can’t 100% confirm that I don’t have names of the parties involved. I don’t have any sort of definite link to the phone and the info I got in general was pretty light. I’m working on getting a copy of the police report, but I’m not sure if or when that will be available. I waited a couple of more weeks to do any sort of update on this, hoping that I would be able to find out more about it, but nothing else has come from it.
Overall, from this, I have pretty mixed feelings. Obviously, I’m saddened with the outcome. If that’s what happened to the caller and the other person involved, I wish they would’ve gotten or asked for help sooner as I wish anyone with a drug habit would do, especially with fentanyl being mixed in with just about everything that’s out there nowadays. But there’s a piece of me that is glad there may be some sort of closure, and I won’t necessarily have to keep wondering about it. I’m sorry to have to pass along bad news like this, but as I’ve said so many times on the show, this is what dispatchers and other first responders have to deal with. It can be a terribly sad and frustrating job at times, but we are needed by other people that are in the middle of any number of different types of emergencies. We have to continue our duties and get the help of the people as best as we can. The outcomes just aren’t always happy ones.
Scott
If Brandon has any further updates on that case, he’ll talk about it on his show. Brandon has been a 911 dispatcher for over 25 years, and he’s the host of Music City 911. You should definitely check it out.
And now, for something completely different (extra points for anyone who gets that reference) –
Not many people know this, but you can actually get What Was That Like merch. Just go to WhatWasThatLike.com/merch. The reason you haven’t really heard me talking about it is because most people want t-shirts – and the quality of the t-shirts was pretty bad. The lettering and artwork would fade and peel pretty quickly. So I would always tell people – yeah, go get some merch if you want, but don’t buy the t-shirts because they suck.
Well, now I’m happy to say that has changed. My supplier is using a different manufacturing process, and I’ve gotten some samples, and run them through the laundry, and it’s all good. So if you want to strut around and show the world that you’re a What Was That Like listener, you can get hoodies, ball caps, coffee mugs, all kinds of stuff – and really good t-shirts. It’s all at WhatWasThatLike.com/merch.
Graphics for this episode were created by Bob Bretz. Full episode transcription was created by James Lai.
And now we’re gonna hear the Listener Story, like we do at the end of every regular episode. This is just a story sent in by a listener, usually around 5-10 minutes long. You can record YOUR story on your phone and email it to me – Scott@WhatWasThatLike.com
This listener talks about getting a diagnosis of a condition that’s quite rare.
Stay safe, and we’ll see you next time.
(Listener story)
My name’s Lara, and I’m a listener from Australia. I would love to share my story about how I was diagnosed with a rare genetic disease called Erythropoietic protoporphyria or EPP for short, which is much easier to say. On the day I am recording this, it’s the 18th of May and its Global Porphyria Day, which I feel is very fitting to tell my story.
Growing up in Australia, I spent my days in the hot sun, hiking, canoeing, sailing, fishing, exploring the natural world, and really enjoying my outdoor life. I even had a dream of becoming an outdoor educator. Back in 2022, I first met my boyfriend, who is an outdoor tour guide, and we had our first date on a boat fishing for barramundi, as you do in the top end of Australia. After the long day of fishing, I noticed slight tingling in my hands and my face, but I didn’t think much of it until a few months later when we traveled to Tasmania to meet his family. This trip to Tasmania was booked for the height of the summer, and we spent the day traveling and sitting on a beach and getting to know his family.
A day later, I ended up in hospital with what I can only describe as a burning feeling from the inside. I had no idea what was happening. It felt like electric shocks through my actual blood vessels. I could feel my veins pulsating with what could only be described as fire, but from the outside there was nothing you could tell about me. I didn’t have a red face. There was no swelling. It was invisible. I just looked like I was having a mental breakdown, which is really not a good look when you’re trying to impress your partner’s family.
After a week of this pain, which didn’t ease with any medication, including morphine, I hallucinated through the pain. I finally managed to sleep after a week, and we continued our travels cautiously, not knowing what had set it off. When we finished our holiday, we’d go back to our hometown in the top end of Australia and I started to book myself in to see my local dermatology team. Every dermatology appointment for the next year had at least six doctors in the room questioning me. No one could figure out what was going on. I didn’t have another reaction that year, even though I was spending time in the sun. It wasn’t until the following year when we went back to Tasmania again to see my partner’s family.
We went sailing on a beautiful yacht through the Rene National Park. I ended up again having this huge reaction. I spent, again, another five days in pain with no relief. Only cold water and ice could soothe the pain again, this burning sensation from the inside. On the fifth day, I got a phone call from my dermatology doctor who diagnosed me with EPP. It was an emotional moment and so full of fear as I was on the phone to them and they were explaining that this disease is very rare, it affects one in 75,000 people. There’s no cure. It’s not life threatening, but it’s life changing and it’s photosensitivity to the sunlight. So in the process that creates my red blood cells, there’s a step that’s missing. In some magical way, you can function your whole life and it just showed up for me, which I still don’t understand.
I was so scared after this diagnosis. I remember sitting in the place we were in, down in Tazzi, looking out the window and realizing that even the reflection off the neighboring roof would affect me. I spent the next few years petrified of sunlight. I stopped all of my outdoor activities. I stopped hanging out with friends. I stopped seeing the sunsets on my local beaches. It really impacted my planning for the future and I realized that my dream of an outdoor educator would have to change.
My beautiful boyfriend was by my side and he helped me plan our next big trip, which was seven weeks in a bus touring New Zealand. This was very scary as the sunlight in New Zealand is quite harsh, but with planning and with advice from my doctor, we did it. I woke up every morning and found a lake or ocean to swim in my bikini, which was a big deal because, obviously, having a sun sensitivity, it’s not advised, but I thought I needed to do this for my own mental health.
This year, we are planning a trip around Australia and this is huge. I want to tell everyone that has a rare disease, no matter what it is – it doesn’t need to be porphyria – you are so important to be here. You are making an impact on this world, even if it’s from your bedroom, and to not be scared of hearing a diagnosis, but then knowing that it’s still your life and you can still do what you want to do. I have had to change my career pathway to suit because being an outdoor educator means being out in the sun 24/7, and that’s not something my body can do right now. But if you’re hearing this message, you’re not alone. I would love to share this message, especially to people with EPP as there’s no one in my hometown that has it. I haven’t met a single person and I sometimes feel alone. Thanks for listening to my story, and I love how these podcasts can bring us together. Thank you.