When you meet someone for the first time, do you trust them by default?
I like to think that I just assume the best of a stranger, until they prove they aren’t worthy of my trust. But that can be dangerous in some cases.
There were a couple of people who were partners in a business and they were looking for office space to rent. They searched online and found an ad for what looked like the perfect space. They met the owner there and he showed them around. They paid him first and last month’s rent using Venmo, and planned to sign the lease agreement the next day.
They got the keys and moved everything in. But they never heard from the owner again. After a couple of days they still weren’t able to reach him. Then the next day, the ACTUAL owner showed up, asking who they were any why they had moved all their stuff in, since he was planning to lease the space out soon.
The original fake owner was a disgruntled employee. He made out with a few thousand dollars, handed over the keys, and disappeared. But that whole scam hinged on trust.
My guest today is Tessi. She lives in Montana but was traveling outside the US. She met a young man and she didn’t have any specific reason to not trust him.
But he was not someone to be trusted.
Links to local articles:
https://www.usexpatcostarica.com/american-identified-suspect-of-rape-in-tortuguero/
Full show notes and pictures for this episode are here:
https://WhatWasThatLike.com/234
Graphics for this episode by Bob Bretz. Transcription was done by James Lai.
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Episode transcript (download transcript PDF):
Couple of things I need to mention before we get into today’s episode.
First – Meredith and I will be doing an online meetup on Zoom this coming Wednesday, November 5. I’ll talk about that at the end of this episode so hang around for that.
And second – today’s story comes with a content warning, as it includes graphic discussion of sexual assault. If you have kids in the car, maybe listen to this one later.
Okay – let’s get into today’s story.
When you meet someone for the first time, do you trust them by default?
I like to think that I just assume the best of a stranger, until they prove they aren’t worthy of my trust. But that can be dangerous in some cases.
There were a couple of people who were partners in a business and they were looking for office space to rent. They searched online and found an ad for what looked like the perfect space. They met the owner there and he showed them around. They paid him first and last month’s rent using Venmo, and planned to sign the lease agreement the next day.
They got the keys and moved everything in. But they never heard from the owner again. After a couple of days they still weren’t able to reach him. Then the next day, the ACTUAL owner showed up, asking who they were and why they had moved all their stuff in, since he was planning to lease the space out soon.
The original fake owner was a disgruntled employee. He made out with a few thousand dollars, handed over the keys, and disappeared. But that whole scam hinged on trust.
My guest today is Tessi. She lives in Montana but was traveling outside the US. She met a young man and she didn’t have any specific reason to not trust him.
But he was not someone to be trusted.
Scott
This story starts with yoga of all things. Tell us about that.
Tessi
Well, it started with yoga. I was attending a local studio. There was only one studio in our little town of 35,000. People taught yoga in other gyms, but this was just our little studio. Our instructor and the gal who opened the studio was moving to Hawaii and she was trying to sell the business and there were just no takers. Nobody kind of wanted to take it over and it was coming down to it. So there was maybe 2 months before she was leaving and I finally was just like, “You know what? I think I can do this.” I had never taught yoga. I’ve been in other exercise programs and have taught things, so it wasn’t completely out of the norm for me. But yeah, I took it over in March of 2016 and I started to even teach classes before I took my teacher training because I had that scheduled. Once I learned I was taking over the yoga center, I found a yoga teacher training and I went to Costa Rica. It’s like an intensive program. They start out with a 200 hour teacher-trainer program and you can find them all over the world. I remember choosing Costa Rica because I knew I was going by myself and it was really a hot spot for yoga. So it just felt safe.
Scott
I had never heard that Costa Rica is a really popular spot for yoga. For practicing it or for going to learn to teach it or both?
Tessi
Both.
Scott
Okay.
Tessi
Yeah. It’s become very big down there and it’s kind of sad in a way. Like, the little town of Puerto Viejo where I had taken the classes, even in the couple years that I had gone back there, you could see the shift in commercialism. They’re using yoga and all that to bring people in and then it creates all the problems of having so many people come and then wanting to buy property and build yoga places. So it was just different seeing that all happen within a couple years. I had always done just the exercise part of yoga and never had dove into the philosophies of it – really had no interest at first. To me, everything was just a physical exercise. So when I’d done that first 200 hour training, that was my first time diving into the philosophies, and it was amazing. I mean, it was really just positive. It turns it more into looking at yourself from the inside and how you treat others, how you treat yourself. There’s just this whole philosophy behind Yoga where the physical part is only one little part of five sections.
Scott
Wow, okay. That shows how much I know about it.
Tessi
Yeah. So that was a lot to learn.
Scott
I mean, I know the downward dog. It takes 200 hours to teach people how to do that? That’s not quite–
Tessi
That was the beginning – the first 200.
Scott
Okay. So you went back in 2018 for another 300 hours of teacher training, and you’d already been there twice before this third trip. Did you feel safe those times?
Tessi
Yeah. Absolutely. I didn’t have any weird experiences. It was kind of the opposite. I felt really safe. People were super friendly. I didn’t always have everything planned out exactly, but it all kind of would just flow together and work out. So yeah, it seemed like one of those magical places where everything just kind of falls into place. It was my third trip by myself. We did one more with my husband on the other side of the country, and that was just a vacation.
Scott
Okay, so this was your third time going there by yourself?
Tessi
Yes.
Scott
And you wanted some free time before the training, which kind of makes sense. It’s a popular vacation spot, right?
Tessi
Yeah. And when I went for my first training, I didn’t really do that because I was like, “Oh, I have to get back to my studio. I had all these things to do.” I mean, a couple days isn’t that big of a deal– I remember wishing I would have had extra time just to play because, for the 200 hour training, it’s every day. It’s not like five days a week and then you get a day off. It’s every day and it’s great stuff, fun stuff to learn. It’s really positive and you’re with other people. But yeah, you like to have some free time to go just check out where you’re at.
Scott
So you went in early and you flew to this little village and I’m not sure I’m going to say it right – Tortuguero. Is that right?
Tessi
Yes. Yep.
Scott
And what was this like? You said there were not even any roads to get there.
Tessi
Yeah. It’s a Tortuguero National Park. I had found out about it because I was going in August and that is the time the turtles come nest on the beaches. So, they have these tour guides that take you out. I remember going out on the tour and it happens at night and you can only have these red infrared lights on. You can’t have any other sort of light source because it messes with the turtle habitat or something, messes with them.
Scott
So, this village is– you can’t even get there by a car or anything?
Tessi
No, it’s on the northern east coast, so it borders Nicaragua. When you look at it, you can see just all this water around it. So yeah, the only way in or out is by plane or boat. There are no vehicles there whatsoever. There’s some sidewalks and bicycles. I mean, it’s a really small village also. It’s just small.
Scott
The tours for the turtles nesting are at night. I can imagine you would only be able to wear, like, red headlights or something because the brighter light would throw off their nocturnal cycle or something.
Tessi
Yes. It’ll affect them in some negative way. I think people used to go try to do that on their own and they were messing up the habitat. So with these tours, they’re really keeping people together and not messing with everything.
Scott
The day you got there, you told me you felt a little bit in awe. What does that mean? How did you feel?
Tessi
Well, I’d flown in and I didn’t know how to get to the hotel. I figured it was just going to be right there. I didn’t realize that the lady from my hotel thought I was coming in on a boat. I didn’t find out about this till later, but she had actually gone to where you meet the boats and was waiting for me. So when I flew in, I wasn’t sure where to go and everybody was kind of departing and leaving. Then, all of a sudden I’m kind of there, one of the last people there. There was another gentleman that had, like, a taxi boat. I knew my hotel was on the beach, so I asked him, “Is it okay if I just walk the beach to my hotel?” And he said, “No, that’s not a good idea. A woman was just raped and murdered last week, so it’s not safe.” And so, I was like, “Oh, okay. Can I get a ride then?” And I’ll pay him for the taxi ride.
On the taxi ride there, he was even saying they didn’t know who had killed the woman yet. He was like, “Well, maybe, I think maybe it was her husband or something like that because she was traveling with her husband, but she’d gone out for a walk on her own.” It was just weird, like having that whole little conversation. It didn’t affect me in a fearful way. I really didn’t think there was somebody out there going to come get me or anything. There was absolutely still no fear in my head. So when he dropped me off at the village part and I went to go find the hotel, it took– oh gosh, it was hours. I was kind of waiting just to check in because the lady that was going to check me in was waiting for me somewhere else. And of course, I don’t know the language. It’s all Spanish. The older woman just kept saying, “Wait here, wait here, she’ll be back” type of thing. And I’m like, “Okay, I don’t know why I’m waiting.”
Scott
And this was before the days we have the apps on our phones where we can say something and it’ll translate and everybody can communicate. But you didn’t have that luxury, right?
Tessi
Yeah, I didn’t. Probably, it was available, but there was no internet service. That was the thing at the hotel. The internet was out. If I wanted internet, I’d have to go down the street and hang out at this little place. So that did keep me isolated – being able to find out anything was not having internet access there.
Scott
Yeah, that does seem a little bit scary. I mean, you’re here by yourself, foreign country, can’t communicate with people, can’t check into your hotel. It seems like you would feel a little bit weird.
Tessi
Yeah. Nothing was falling into place super easy. In some trips, everything just lands in place and it’s like *sigh of relief* but this trip wasn’t starting out like that. While I was waiting for the lady, I was like, “Okay, well the hotel’s on the beach, so I’ll just go to the beach and hang out.” I was just trying to sit there and I was restless. I was even trying to journal and I just couldn’t. I think the only thing I wrote down in my journal that day was I’m feeling really uncomfortable and I can’t get into vacation mode, so I felt like it was just me not being able to let my normal world go and kind of sink into a vacation. So it was like, “Must be me. It’s my fault.” It was just weird
Scott
That day – or that night rather – you decided to go on one of the turtle tours.
Tessi
I think I had finally checked in around maybe 4 o’clock and got my stuff in the room and then went and got something to eat and there was going to be a tour at either 8 o’clock or 10 o’clock and she was just going to kind of let me know. So I just kind of went for a walk and I ended up at the– that would be kind of the western edge of town on the riverside of the village because there was the river village and then the ocean. So I was just hanging out watching the sunset. Tons of people around, tons of birds making their noises. I was just taking it all in. That is where this kid came up to me. He was on a bicycle. He just came up just to be friendly, talking, “Oh, what are you doing here? What brings you here?” Just that kind of talk.
Scott
So he spoke English?
Tessi
Yes, he spoke English. But I will say there was definitely some misunderstanding. I can’t give a good example but, when you’re talking, you can tell somebody’s not quite understanding you and then it would be the same way with– when he was telling me something, sometimes, I wouldn’t quite get what he was saying. Even when he told me his name, it was “Ever”, and I was like, “What?” And he says, “Ever. Like forEVER,” which is creepy later on. But yeah, he spoke English. He was actually a Nicaraguan and he just looked like a young, nice young man kid. He was wearing white shorts, a white polo shirt. To me, he looked like he was in his early twenties. I was like, “Oh, he is just a kid.”
Scott
Okay. And how old were you at the time?
Tessi
40.
Scott
Okay.
Tessi
Yeah. When I’m talking to him, I’m not thinking at all that he’s thinking of me in any other way than– this is a small village. What do you do? You talk to strangers. When people come, that’s how you entertain yourself. You get to know people.
Scott
And he also was a tour guide.
Tessi
Mmhmm.
Scott
What kind of tours did he do?
Tessi
He worked at an eco fishing resort. So he would take people out on the river and that for tours – I think it varied – looking for just animal type tours and also, like, eco fishing. So he’d take them out probably places they know.
Scott
Okay. So all of his tours were by boat?
Tessi
Yes.
Scott
I guess it would be safe to assume that he was talking to you like trying to get a customer, a tour customer. Does that make sense?
Tessi
Yeah. And I didn’t even feel like it was that way. It was just like we’re both sitting here, we’re having a conversation. I didn’t even feel like he was coming up to me for anything in particular.
Scott
So it was very organic, casual–
Tessi
Yeah.
Scott
Okay.
Tessi
As we’re sitting there, he said something about grabbing a beer because it was like an outdoor area, so there’s tons of tables and everything. I was like, “Oh sure, I’ll get a beer.” I think we had two bears just sitting there talking, and he definitely was a tour guide because I’d seen people go by and they were, like, waving at him kind of like a recognition of like, “Oh yeah, you took us on our tour.” And then, other people that work in the area definitely knew him and were saying hi to him. It just seemed open and it wasn’t like I was high.
Scott
It sounds like all these people walking by and saying hi to him would come across to you even subconsciously as a sort of an unspoken reference that this guy is okay, we know him, he’s safe.
Tessi
Exactly, yep. That’s kind of what happened in my head. I think it was just like, “Oh, this is a small town. Everybody knows this kid” because he was a kid to me. I didn’t have a negative, scared feeling whatsoever even at this point. After he had two beers, the gal from my hotel found me and said that they’re ready to go on the tour, to go grab close-toed shoes and a bag. So I went and ran to my hotel and was getting all that stuff ready and then had to go to the other end of the village to meet up with the Turtle tour guide.
Scott
When you saw the other end of the village, you walked there. How long did that take?
Tessi
Maybe not even 10 minutes. That’s how small this place is. I mean, it’s pretty small. It’s really small.
Scott
Okay. All right. So you went on the tour?
Tessi
Yep. It was me and a family with a little girl. She was probably, like, 12 years old and they spoke Spanish. I was the only English speaking person there, so I didn’t really have anybody to talk to. It was funny though, because the guide was definitely talking more in Spanish for them and they would occasionally say something in English to me. I mean, I didn’t care. It was no big deal. So yeah, the tour– I think we started at 8 and we were back by 10 o’clock.
Scott
Because the next one starts at 10.
Tessi
Mm-hmm.
Scott
Okay.
Tessi
And there were a bunch of other groups because other people have tours for the same thing. So we’re all out there on the beach and it’s by the airport. We went back to where I had flown in – where we had started and went looking for the turtles. We only saw one, but we did see one. Got back from the tour and the kid, Ever was there waiting and we all just kind of hung out, talking – all of us, the family. The tour guide I was with and Ever were just kind of chatting. The family was saying they were going to meet again the next day with the same guide to tour a river. The little girl asked if I would go and I didn’t have plans, so I was like, “Yeah, I’ll meet you guys back here.” So I was going to meet them back there at the same spot at 6 AM the next morning. The guy, Don Deu was the one that I’d taken the tour with and I believe he was the husband to Rosa that checked me into the hotel. So that was that connection.
Scott
The hotel’s kind of a family owned business then.
Tessi
It felt like it. I’m not sure exactly who owned what, but who was running was Rosa and then I’m going to say her mom because it was a much older woman and she was the one that was telling me – she didn’t know English – just to wait to check in. “I can’t check you in. You got to wait” type of thing.
Scott
So the family left.
Tessi
Yup. They took off and it was kind of, like, a center court area, like a little park and then there’s little outdoor eateries type of thing. So we went and got another beer and just kind of sat around. At that time, he said, “Oh, if you want anything, I can get you anything you want.” And I knew what he was talking about. He was talking about drugs. Down there, there’s like coke, everything. Who knows? I didn’t even ask what he could get, but I was like, “Yeah, if you can get some weed, I’d get some weed.” I was assuming he meant the next day and then, all of a sudden, he stood up. He is like, “I’ll be right back.” I’m just like, “Okay.”
Scott
He was ready for that assignment.
Tessi
Yeah, I guess so. I don’t even know if I knew right away that that’s where he left to go. He was just all of a sudden gone and it was just a few minutes really, and then he came back. He knew all the people that had worked in these little shops because he went behind the counter and grabbed a couple beers and put them in a plastic bag. I don’t even think he paid for them. So it’s like all these people know each other really well. After that, he’s like, “Follow me.” So I did. I followed him. We just went just kind of right across the sidewalk area and then there’s the river. At the river is where his boat was – his work boat. It’s not actually his boat, it’s the boat he does tours on. To me, it was like a really large canoe. So it was all open, but it was bigger than canoes I know. But that’s the best way I could describe it. And it had a motor on it.
Scott
So it was motorized.
Tessi
Yeah.
Scott
And as far as the size, how many people do you think would comfortably fit on this canoe boat?
Tessi
I mean, you could probably get 8 to 10 people on it.
Scott
Oh, so it’s pretty good size then?
Tessi
Yeah. It was just the shape that made me think canoe, so I don’t know if that’s what’s considered.
Scott
It must be wider than a typical canoe.
Tessi
Yes. Yeah. In the middle section, you could probably seat three people. I honestly didn’t even think twice about it. I didn’t even ask, “Where are we going?” I knew, across the river, there’s a couple things because that’s where he pointed where his eco fishing resort is. It’s just on the other side of the river. So I guess I thought we were just going to the other side of the river. But anyway, I got in the boat and he motored it up and we just drove down the river a little bit and then cut across, so it wasn’t even that far – I mean minutes that we had gone. When he pulled up, it’s just all jungle. There’s no beach to pull the boat into or anything. There was like one little section where he was able to just kind of push the boat up, but then it was just like all bushes behind them.
Scott
So it wouldn’t have been convenient for you to even step off the boat because there was no place to walk.
Tessi
There was nowhere to go. When I say jungle, it’s jungle jungle. Everything’s intertwined. There’s nowhere to step. I still didn’t think anything of this. At that time, he had gotten the weed. I had actually had rolling papers with me, so I rolled a joint. While I was doing that, I was kind of in the front of the boat. That front of the boat was where it was on the shore. He comes around and sits on that front of the boat facing me to the very edge and then he’s facing me.
Scott
So you’re pretty close to each other at that point?
Tessi
Yeah.
Scott
Okay.
Tessi
And so after I’d rolled the joint and everything, that’s when he started with getting handsy. He was reaching over, grabbing my knees and stuff, and I was like, “Whoa, no, we’re not doing this.” It was a lot of the handsy stuff. Then, he tried kissing me. So he was, like, leaning over and then I’m leaning back, almost falling. I kind of pushed him away and he backed off. Fine. Still not afraid. I’m still just like, ugh, annoyed that I’m having to deal with this, that I didn’t catch on, that this is what I got myself into. So it’s more just annoyed.
Scott
So you now sort of have the realization, okay, now I know why he wanted me on the boat and to come to this secluded spot because he has some intentions.
Tessi
Yeah. I mean, we’re not that far away. I know if I scream, people could hear me. We’re not far away, but I wasn’t at the point where I felt I needed to scream yet. I thought he would just take me back, but he didn’t. So he came at me again. That time, I was able to really push him off and I got to the back end of the boat. I was standing there and then he kind of started to come towards me again. That’s when I remembered, oh yeah, I have a voice. So I just screamed really loud – just a scream, no words – and he did back off. He freaked out, but then he came at me again. That time, I screamed really loud and I think I even– did I say? I might have said, “RAPE!!!!” I was just trying to get the attention and he backed off. There was just a while of him saying, “Please, why not?” It was like this negotiation, like, “Why? Just please.” And this went on for– I felt like, “Ever, just please just take me back.” And he wouldn’t. He just kept going on with the “Please.”
Scott
From where you were, did you feel like, even if no one heard you scream, could anyone see you or did you see any other people?
Tessi
No. Because it was probably 10.30 – 11 o’clock at night. And the village is small, so it kind of shuts down and it’s dark. So no, I wasn’t hearing people necessarily. I actually didn’t know who was out there or anything.
Scott
10.30 at night. Obviously, it’s completely dark. I assume his boat didn’t have any lights on it. Or did it?
Tessi
No.
Scott
Okay. And unless there was a full moon, you’d just be in the darkness.
Tessi
There may have been some moon because I could tell where we were. There was also a grassy area, like how grass comes up out of the water. So there’s kind of this big area of that. And then, just a little further out into the river was another really small island of grass. I had those in my head. I could just picture all of that. After probably the third time of him coming at me and then me actually screaming and realizing, “Oh, okay, this is getting serious”, it actually started to rain. I know you’re in Florida and I’ve experienced really heavy rains in Florida before where it’s just so loud. You cannot hear anything over this rain. It comes down in just buckets, just like a sheet. I didn’t put it together then, but it was afterwards that I realized that’s why he had the confidence to come at me again. He knew if I screamed, nobody would hear me.
Scott
Because all they would hear is the rain.
Tessi
Mm-hmm
Scott
Because it’s raining so hard, people wouldn’t even be outside anyway.
Tessi
Yeah, the type of rain that just definitely is not something I experience on a random basis. So yeah, just super loud. That is the time he finally came at me more violently. I was still kind of in the middle towards the end of the boat, back of the boat, and he had pushed me down to the bottom of the boat. He had his right forearm on my neck and then he was holding my other arm down with his other hand. I just remember my face being sideways. The more I struggled, the harder he pushed and the rain was coming in, I felt, ugh. I felt like I was drowning because there was just so much rain and my head was sideways. I can’t even remember. The rain stopped eventually. I don’t even think it lasted that long. But at some point, as I pushed him off, I said, “If I do this, will you not kill me?” Because when he had his arm on my throat, I had that split second a vision of me, a dead body laying in the water by all that grass that was coming up out of the water. I had this picture of me dead there and having to have my parents find out – and my husband. It’s just like, ugh. All of that goes through your head in just seconds.
Scott
And that had to just add to the trauma that you were already experiencing.
Tessi
There’s definitely a will to live inside of us that is so powerful. All of a sudden, it didn’t matter what he did, I just had to survive. Okay, he’s going to do what he’s going to do. I need to survive this. That’s when it became like, “Oh, okay, this is real.” So yeah, I say, “If I do this, will you not kill me?” And he doesn’t say anything. He just motions like, “Take your pants off.” Okay. From this point on, I comply with everything he says. I know I can’t get on land and run. I can’t swim in this river because who knows what kind of animals in it. It’s the jungle. So there I am. He’s got me. And so, yeah, he went right away just doing his deal.
I was on the bottom of the boat. I remember my head being really smashed up against the backseat, and I’m just trying to brace myself thinking, “Okay, this can’t last too long.” But then it was like, if I ever said, “I’m tired. Can we stop now?” He still wasn’t saying anything, but I started sensing a shift in him whenever I would ask that, and it would be like, “Nope, we’re changing positions.” That’s not how he said it, but it was like, “No, you’re not going to tell us when we’re done.”
So I went from looking up to the sky, just trying to not be there, just be gone, let him do what he is doing and I’m not going to be there. But then I’d come back into these moments of how am I going to save myself? What am I going to do? So I was kind of coming in and out of this weird consciousness of knowing what’s going on and then not wanting to be there. My therapist said it was actually quite impressive that I was able to come out of that trauma brain and actually try to think of ways to save myself because, sometimes, once you’re in that trauma brain, it’s just this adrenaline, it’s all these hormones, it’s kind of out of your control anymore.
During all that, let’s see, he finally, at some point, makes me change positions. And then, he is getting me more involved. He wants me to kiss him, and I’m like, “Oh, my mouth’s too dry. I can’t.” I was just trying anything to not do what he said, but he didn’t care. He still wasn’t saying much. It was more just motions and pointing for me what to do. That went on for a while. Every time I was asking if we could be done, it was almost like he got empowered with this control. Then, I started to remember like, “Oh yeah, with rape victims, it is about control. It’s not always about the act of sex. It’s like they want control of you.” So I was able to kind of get that in my head and started figuring out his reactions to things. I’d say I just kind of started to come up with a plan, like, “Okay, I’m going to start acting like I like this.” Ugh, it’s just disgusting to even have to act that way.
Scott
Right. Yes. That had to be an Oscar worthy performance for you.
Tessi
I mean, it took everything I had to pretend, and I was just like, “Okay, this is for my life.” You can put up with a lot when you are going to either be alive or dead.
Scott
So really, at this point, you had calculated that your best chance for survival is just to comply?
Tessi
Yes. I knew I had to comply. Also, during this whole time, I know that he knows that all these people saw me with him. So does that mean he needs to kill me when he’s done? Because I’ll turn him in. So the whole time, I’m just like, “Is he going to kill me? Is he going to kill me now?” At one point, he had me sideways and my head was off the canoe and it was like touching the water. I’m just like, “This is where he is going to strangle me and drown me.” That’s the kind of stuff that was going through my head. And then I’d go back to just looking at the sky, like, “Okay. I’m not here. I’m not here.”
Scott
It’s interesting. It’s so smart of you to realize that you know his name, you know where he works, he saw you or all those other people saw you with him, and if he sees you as the enemy, that doesn’t look good for your survival. But if you are enjoying it, you’re now his disgusting-to-say “girlfriend”, maybe you might get out of it.
Tessi
Yeah. I might live and that’s what kind of is. I mean, he was that disgusting where you could start out with having your arm on somebody’s throat to make them do what you want to him believing that I was like, “Yeah, this is great.” At one point, he was like, “Let’s go back to your place and we can shower and fuck more.” It came out of my mouth. I was like, “Oh, I can’t have guests.” And then I was like, “Oh my God.” He said something about going over to his place and I was just like, “Oh, why did I say that? I don’t want to go to his place. I need to get over to my land.” And so I did. I was able to kind of backtrack and be like, “Oh, well actually, yeah. Let’s go back to my place.” And yes, we’ll do that. It’s no big deal. There’s nobody around. Nobody’s going to see you.
Scott
How much time had passed from that point from when you parked in the secluded spot till you’re talking about leaving and going back to your hotel?
Tessi
It had been hours. All I do know is that, by the time I got back, it was like three in the morning by the time I ever checked a phone and a time. So, yeah, it had just been hours.
Scott
Hours of going through this. Now this is kind of a graphic question, but did he ejaculate on the boat?
Tessi
I want to say no. I don’t know if he had issues or what, but he was making me get more involved because he wasn’t able to keep an erection. I don’t know for sure because I would go in and out of paying attention to what was going on, but I do want to say, I really don’t think he did. I don’t actually know how we ended up stopping at the end. Maybe it was just because we said we were going to continue once I got back to the place.
Scott
Take a break and go back. I’m sure he thought, “Oh, her place. There’s a bed. It’d be more comfortable.” All that.
Tessi
Mm-hmm. Yeah. We were going to shower, all that kind of stuff.
Scott
So he fired up the motor and you came back?
Tessi
Not that quickly. Finally, I was allowed to get dressed again. I remember grabbing my backpack. I knew that my hotel key was in the top pouch, so I took the key out and I was able to put my shorts back on. I put it in my shorts pocket, and I just was mentally ready to be able to get back to my room. So from that point, yes, I thought we were ready to go, but he came and he sat next to me, and he kind of put like his hand down the back of my pants and then I was just kind of staring forward and he would turn my face and make me kiss him and then I’d kind of turn back and he did this 6 times in a row and it was seriously more of the disgusting than the actual act of sex – to have to kiss somebody that– I don’t know why it’s so different but it was gross and it was taking everything I have to just keep myself like, “Ah, yay, this is great.” Then, finally, he kind of pushed away, started the motor and, within a minute, we were back.
We went back to where he had docked where I’d got on the boat. I’m thinking, “Okay, this is how I can get away. I need a restroom.” So I asked him, “Hey, is there a restroom or somewhere I can use the bathroom?” Of course he’s like, “Just go right here on the deck.” God damnit. Okay. So I just had to pull down my pants and pee in front of him on the dock where the boat was, still trying to think of how the hell am I going to get away. I remember him going in and all of our stuff was soaked because it had rained. So our stuff was just soaked. He handed me his shoes. So I was standing outside the boat holding his shoes and he’s like, “I got to get my friend to help with the boat. I’ll be right back.” I had no idea what he was talking about. I had no clue where he was going, what he was doing.
Scott
Because the boat was already at the dock, right?
Tessi
Yeah. I don’t know what you would have to do with it. I have no clue. I still to this day have no idea what. Somebody kind of freaked me out and said that he was probably going to get a friend to be able to take advantage of me also, but I don’t know that. At that point, I was watching him and, as he went north and then turned at the building, I put his shoes down. I had flip flops on and I took my flip flops off and held them. I went around another corner just to peek if he was there and I didn’t see him. So I just took off running for my life and I had no idea if he was behind me, if he saw me run. At one point, I got myself stuck behind a fence and I just needed to be on the other side of the fence and, then, down an alleyway would be my hotel. I kind of had to figure that part out. I was kind of looking to see if he was coming and I kind of had to go back out to where he might see me to get around this fence, but I did it. I didn’t see him.
I just ran straight to my hotel. I had my key ready. Took me a minute because I was all nervous trying to get the key in the door, but I got the key in the door, shut the door, and was just like in shock. I shut the door behind me and I’m just not even quite realizing, like, “Wait, am I really safe?” I’m alive. So I go to my room.
Scott
I can just say, if everyone listening to this is like me, they all just breathed a sigh of relief. You got away.
Tessi
I know. I could not believe it myself. I think, at some point, I really just thought, I don’t know that I was never going to get away. He knows the hotel I’m at. He doesn’t know exactly where I’m at, room-wise, but I was on the bottom floor and it’s, like, open windows because it’s Costa Rica. There’s bars on the windows, but there’s no window or no glass. So I went into the bathroom and sat on the floor in the dark and just waited for sunlight because I was scared. I didn’t want any light on in my room. Also, at that point it started to really rain again, which was nice because I couldn’t hear anything outside. I also didn’t know if he was rumbling around outside trying to look in or anything. But yeah, the rain had come back.
Scott
He knew what hotel you were at though.
Tessi
Yeah. It was a small hotel. It was probably only 3 or 4 bottom rooms and then 3 or 4 second floor rooms. So yeah, it wasn’t like some big resort. I still didn’t feel safe even though I was behind a locked door. Did not feel okay at all.
Scott
So you still had hours to wait before sunlight?
Tessi
Yeah, it was probably 3 – 3.30 when I looked at my phone. At one point, I did take the flashlight on my phone and I looked in the mirror and I could see a bruise on my neck, and I really kind of was like, “Okay, it really did happen.” I’m trying to almost tell myself, “Did all this happen? Is this real?” Like, you’re in such a state of shock that nothing feels real anymore. I felt like the skin had been ripped off me and that I was just this open, icky thing that, if people saw me, they would know and I felt really exposed even though nobody was around. I was already feeling like, “Oh my God, everybody’s going to know. They’re going to see it. They’re just going to know all the ick that I had to go through.” I think it was still dark and I decided to take a shower. I didn’t super wash. At this point, I was just trying to get leap. I had no clue that I was going to turn him in to anybody. I just didn’t know how to leave.
Scott
You were still in escape mode.
Tessi
Yeah.
Scott
Not “Let’s catch this guy and get justice.”
Tessi
Absolutely. I was just, “I don’t ever want to see this guy again.” I’m scared to go to where the boats are by myself because what if I run into him? I did know he was doing a tour that morning because I was supposed to meet him at 8.30 to go on one of the tours, and I was like, “Yeah, where are we going to go?” And I was trying to be like I was going to be there and into it.
Scott
Now you got to figure out how to get out of your room and get out of this village.
Tessi
Yeah. And the internet still doesn’t work, so I can’t look up anything. I have no idea. I didn’t come in on the boat, so I don’t know anything about how to get to them or a reservation. I just try to start packing. I mean I didn’t even unpack a lot anyway because I was barely there, but it was taking forever. My mind could not even focus on just putting things into a backpack. It was like the most bizarre– and I was getting mad at myself, like, “Calm! Focus!” But it was like hours
because that was probably at, like, 6 a bit and I think it was about 8 o’clock when I finally left my room to go look for some help. I meant help as getting out of there and finding a boat to get out there.
Scott
You were still in trauma shock. I mean, doing simple tasks like that– that seems to be an indication.
Tessi
It’s really unnerving and scary when you can’t focus your mind on something so simple and you know that it’s simple and you’re like, “What is wrong with me?” I think it was around 8. I came out of my room and I could see, somebody else’s door was open and there were people in there and they were packing their stuff. I’m kind of watching and I don’t know what to do. Finally, I kind of went to the door and I was like, “Does anybody know English?” The guy did know a little bit, not a ton, but he’s like, “Yeah.” And I was like, “Are you guys leaving today on a boat?” And he said, “Yeah.” And I was like, “Can I go with you?” And he is like, “Yeah.”
He was bringing his packs out to the front door of the patio. As he was bringing his bags out, he must have seen a look in me and he was like, “Are you okay?” And that was all it took. I was just like, bawling. I was like, “No, I’ve been attacked. I was attacked last night.” He immediately was shocked too, and went and was looking for one of the hotel people. Rosa wasn’t quite there yet. There was a younger gentleman that I didn’t meet the day before, but he’d worked there and he knew English, so he became my translator. So when he came around, he was trying to ask like, “Okay, so he took you but nothing happened?” And I was like, “No, something happened.” And he was like, “Oh.” You could just see the defeat in his face just knowing probably somebody he knows had done this. I gave him his name and described the boat and he’s like, “Yeah, I think I know him.” They talked me into going to the police station. I was afraid because I don’t know if the police in Costa Rica are for the people. My first thought was like, “They’re going to be pissed because this is going to bring bad publicity.”
Scott
Yeah. Because tourism is what they all count on and bad news like this hurts that.
Tessi
Yeah. So that’s where my feelings were – “They’re going to be mad at me.” But I went down. They walked me down to the police station, which was just another cement barricade room. Nothing in it. That gentleman from the hotel, he relayed my story to the police officer there. I just had to kind of go in as much detail as I could of what happened. Then, I just end up waiting a long time. There’s that language barrier, so I have no idea what I’m waiting for. I spent a lot of time being patient and then there was nothing I could do. Once I had decided to tell the police, it was like, “Okay, it’s all out of my hands. I have to trust these people.” I can’t worry about anything because they’re the ones that have to take me places and okay, here we go.
It was a couple hours we were waiting there. I didn’t realize they were waiting for a boat to get me out because I had to go to a place where there were actually courtrooms, hospital, all that kind of stuff. So they found somebody that had a boat that was leaving. They didn’t have a female police person there, so Rosa from the hotel accompanied me for the entire way to where we were going, which was Guápiles, Costa Rica. It was like 90 minutes on this little metal boat, nothing special. It was raining, of course, so I just remember having my poncho on and I even remembered to cover my backpack with its rainfly and I just sat for 90 minutes in the rain winding through these little tiny– like, it would be a river and then it would go into like these little tiny channels. Then, next thing you know, we kind of came to an open area where there’s lots of boats. It’s kind of like a hub where you would catch a boat to go to different directions or catch a ride. At that point is where we had to wait for the policemen and they were taking us another hour or so from that spot to Guápiles.
Scott
It makes me think. Rosa– this isn’t part of the job of a hotel manager. She went with you and you didn’t know how far away it was, but she sure did. So she knew what she was committing herself to. That’s quite to her credit.
Tessi
Oh yes, she knew. And it was a horrible ride because it was, like, a 4-door truck and it was like these windy roads. So me and Rosa in the back are just, like, feeling car sick and just like, “Ugh.” So we get to Guápiles and there’s like a whole courtroom area. We have to go through metal detectors. I don’t know if it’s the police station also. I’m not quite sure. But we get there and it’s going to take a while to find a translator. They don’t just have somebody there and this area is not as touristy, so they really don’t know English – pretty much anybody in this whole courtroom area. Nobody knew English, so Rosa stayed with me until we knew there was a translator on our way, and then Rosa took the whole entire journey back by herself.
Scott
At this point, did you have any idea what the ultimate plan was? Were you going to testify and then be done? Or did you know?
Tessi
Oh God, I have no idea.
Scott
You didn’t know.
Tessi
I didn’t know, and I couldn’t ask. It was that difficult without knowing the same languages. I can’t just even ask simple questions. So, it was really just sitting and waiting. It wasn’t until like, oh gosh, 4 o’clock that afternoon when the translator finally made it. I’d been up the entire day before, so I’m still awake from that entire day. She shows up and – just this young girl – she was probably only, like, 22 years old. She had said she saw it on the news and I remember kind of being taken back, like, “What do you mean the news?” Apparently, they had arrested him that day – maybe the same day I told on him – and he did the same journey to Guápiles and I had no idea. I had no idea they had arrested him. Apparently, it was all over the news.
Scott
So he was now in the same building where you were?
Tessi
Yeah. And they didn’t mean for it to happen, but he was brought by and I happened to just be sitting out in the kind of a sitting area and they walked by with him. So yeah, I had to see him, which, at that time, I didn’t care. I just gave him an evil look and was just like, “Good. Huh, you’re here.”
Scott
And did he see you?
Tessi
Yeah. He didn’t seem to have that confident look on his face like he did the whole time he had me. He just looked sheepish and, yeah, he got caught.
Scott
You were married at this time, right?
Tessi
Yes. Yeah.
Scott
Were you able to call your husband at all during this to let him know what’s going on?
Tessi
I hadn’t talked to anybody yet. I’m only talking to people I don’t even know. That’s the only people in my life at that moment. I didn’t have phone service because I just don’t do that. I can do stuff through the internet, but I didn’t have, like, long distance–
Scott
So you’d have to be on wifi to make a call then?
Tessi
Yeah.
Scott
Okay.
Tessi
So, I wasn’t even ready to deal with anything and I don’t even know what to tell anybody yet. I’m just in my own hell and I’m just there and I’m not even trying to decide how to tell anybody yet. The first person I did call and tell was Nicole and she was down in Puerto Viejo, part of the yoga program.
Scott
That was your ultimate destination?
Tessi
Yes, yeah. That’s where I’m going to be heading. So I called to let her know and, automatically, she’s like, “Are they treating you okay?” She was worried that I wasn’t okay with how they were treating me, but I have to admit, Costa Rica did awesome. They took care of me. They believed me. They arrested him. They got me a hotel room. They took care of me and I will give them that credit for sure.
Scott
Now, I understand you had to also identify him in a lineup.
Tessi
Yeah, so once I went through the entire story and the translator had it translated to somebody typing it out, once that was finally done, they said that I’m going to have to go to a lineup. I was like, “Okay.” Finally get up there and it really is the whole thing of being behind the glass where they can’t see you and there were maybe four or five guys in line. And of course, I knew exactly who he was right away. I was like, “Yep, that’s him. Third one in.” They’re like, “Are you sure?”
Scott
Well, you’d already seen him walk by. You even knew what he was wearing that day anyway.
Tessi
Yeah, I had no doubt. From there– it was in the same building. That’s where I had to go to a court doctor and she did, like, the rape kit, all the DNA. She measured bruises. My whole back’s covered in bruises just from being on my back. I had bruises on my arms. So she did all of that and that was still all in the courtroom. After that, they’re like, “You have to go to the hospital now to get medicine.” So there, we had to drive. It was like two detectives and my translator. My translator was with me this entire time. We go to the hospital and it’s different. There’s people in gurneys in the hallways. It’s like a different kind of hospital than what I’m used to. I felt really guilty because I got pushed ahead of people. They took me back sooner than people that had been waiting there. I know we are on a time constraint with the medicine that they need to give me.
Scott
What was the medicine for?
Tessi
I think it’s for STD, viruses. I don’t know. I don’t even know the medicine. It was like three different shots. I had one medicine I took for a couple days and then two that I had to take for a month. It was all in Spanish, so I don’t know what I took. I just took it.
Scott
At that time, you said you were 40. Were you concerned about the possibility of pregnancy?
Tessi
Yeah, that part didn’t cross my mind till I was in Puerto Viejo where I did still end up going and spending the three weeks, but I just spent those three weeks healing. But yeah, that crossed my mind and, honestly, I was like, “Oh, thank God I live in America where I can get an abortion.” Because in Costa Rica, it wasn’t legal. They didn’t even talk about testing, nothing. You don’t even talk about it. I remember having that thought, like, “Oh, thank God I live in America.” Yeah, it doesn’t matter now.
Scott
Okay. So you went through all that and then they got you a motel room and some food. You must have been starving, you hadn’t eaten.
Tessi
Rosa had taken me across the street when we were still waiting for the translator and was trying to get me to eat, but, oh, I just couldn’t. I think just all that adrenaline, the hormones that are going through you, I was just nauseated. I didn’t want to eat all day. By the time I got done with the hospital, they could drop me off where they had gotten me a room. It had probably been 11.30 at night by that time. I remember eating a little bit and I was so exhausted I couldn’t even shower. Even having gone through like the rape kit, people all in my business, I just didn’t even have the energy still to shower – I just didn’t care – and still had trouble that next day packing again. It was like my mind was still just swirling.
Scott
And you weren’t planning to cut everything short and come back home.
Tessi
No. because I knew that I couldn’t just go right home and then have to deal with what I just went through where people think I should have been gone, and they’d be wondering, why am I back? I knew I couldn’t face my reality back home in the state I was. And because I had known the people down in Puerto Viejo, I had stayed at the execs place before, I knew it was safe. They knew me, I knew them. I actually had my own room that time. It was the first time I splurged and I was going to have my very own room. So I just ended up going down there just to heal. I slept so much, honestly. I’ve slept for years. A lot of sleeping, crying. Then, I was finding articles about the incident. It was like an American Costa Rica newspaper type of thing. So that had me freaking out like, “Oh my God, everybody back home’s going to know.” And of course I’m ashamed, embarrassed. There’s all of that. It is not an easy topic. It’s not like I can go back home and be like, “Yeah, I got in a car accident.” You have to pick and choose who you tell the truth to.
Scott
I mean, I’m sure you were anticipating victim shaming, like, “Why did you get on this boat with this stranger?”
Tessi
Yeah. All the stuff I was mad at myself about. Yeah, absolutely. You’re ashamed. You’re like, “I got myself into this.” But I knew also that I said no, and he was violent. Even though I got on the boat, he could have stopped at any time. There was no reason he should have kept going.
Scott
The victim shaming is such a crazy thing. You shouldn’t even have to entertain that thought in your head at all. You’re dealing with the trauma you’ve already experienced, and to have others kind of add to that, I don’t understand it.
Tessi
Yeah. So telling my husband– I didn’t actually call him until the next day after I got to Puerto Viejo, so it might’ve been like two full days where he had no clue. It’s such an icky phone call. Like, who wants to make that phone call? I remember Nicole, like, warning me that other people were going to be showing up and that the phone line, the internet was going to start getting used more. If I want to make my phone call, you better do it soon. I said, okay. And so, yeah, I had to call him and tell him what happened and he was in shock, of course. Thankfully, he understood why I was staying down there and wasn’t like, “Why aren’t you just coming home?” He understood, like, “Yes, take the time you need.” I was already off from work. I had nobody contacting me because I was already going to be gone.
Scott
You needed that time.
Tessi
And it really was the best thing for me. I mean, sure, I had to deal with a whole new set of circumstances coming home, but it gave me that time to just cry and sleep and go through this story constantly in my head, just repeating it. That went on the entire time I was there – the motion, the picture of it all happening, not even just the rape, but the whole thing with the courts. That in itself is a whole other trauma. Even though I had to do it, I don’t regret doing it. It just added a whole other story to it
Scott
Because you had to keep relaying that story again and over.
Tessi
Yeah.
Scott
That may be kind of the silver lining in this whole story because, for a lot of people, if you’re raped here in America, you might have to go back to work the next day or something, but you had three weeks at a yoga resort.
Tessi
I was able to hide, which I did. I was very quiet. I didn’t want anybody to know that I was anywhere, and that was the feeling that stayed with me for a long time – that feeling of wanting to hide, like physically hiding. Towards the end of the three weeks, I got a visit from some detectives that said that I have to go back to Guápiles before I fly out to testify and I said like, “Oh, I thought my statement would’ve been enough,” but they said it wasn’t, so okay, I will. And then I had to trust once again. I had to get into vehicles that I didn’t know. There were even unmarked vehicles because they had to kind of shuttle me up to Guápiles. I’d get into one police vehicle, they’d take me for ways, and I get into a different one, the whole time just being like, “Okay, I got to trust this.” I think I got in around 10 AM and, in front of three judges, I was going to give my testimony. His lawyer was playing a game of, “Oh, I’m sick. I can’t come in.” And they weren’t able to find him. We all knew what was going on. He knew I was going to be flying out soon. If he can push this–
Scott
He was trying to run out the clock.
Tessi
Yeah. Luckily, they went to the higher courts and– I mean, it took all day but, I think, finally, at 9 PM they made him take another lawyer for that testimony thing that I had to do. Then, I was able to, finally, once again, in front of people I don’t know, tell the story in detail, and he was right there.
Scott
He heard you telling the story?
Tessi
Yeah. They gave him the microphone at the end to ask me questions and I was so pissed off. I was so pissed off. Of course, the thing he asks about is something about the weed and I can’t remember what question it was, and I was just like, “I don’t know what you’re talking about.” I completely denied the weed part because I did not say it in my statement that I gave where the interpreter had it all written out. I kind of left out the part about the weed because I was in a different country where it’s illegal and I was afraid. I didn’t know if it was going to change everything because, now, I’m the bad person.
Scott
You were both doing illegal stuff.
Tessi
And so I did. I made that choice myself when I was given the statement. I had to keep with that and I just denied the weed thing the entire time because I knew if there’s any hint of me lying, they were going to turn it all into a lie.
Scott
Exactly.
Tessi
And I knew that.
Scott
So did they ever find out about the weed?
Tessi
No.
Scott
Okay. So that worked out anyway.
Tessi
Yeah.
Scott
After you got back home, did anything seem like it was getting back to some sense of normal?
Tessi
No. Oh, it was horrible coming home. It was horrible because, then, everybody knew I was going down for this class. I came back to my studio and I have to pretend that, no, it was great. I learned a bunch of stuff because it’s not a topic you can just bring up. It does not come out naturally. There’s never a good opportunity to bring up, “I’ve been raped.”
Scott
And it’s so awkward. And when people ask, “Hey, how was your trip?”, they aren’t ready for that conversation.
Tessi
Exactly.
Scott
They don’t know what they’re asking.
Tessi
Yeah. So it was really just so difficult to be living in this weird lie, I guess, like this fake me trying to be okay. I definitely was trying to get myself out of any sort of obligations that I had myself in. I wanted to get out of the yoga center. I didn’t want to teach anymore. It was way too connected to what had just happened. I know it’s not like this direct connection but, to me, I think because of all the philosophies being taught of being good and I was not aware of the bad in the world because I had this rosy glasses on of this yoga world where everybody treats everybody with respect and you treat others the way you would be treated and you kind of forget that there’s this actual real world of people out there that have different intentions.
Scott
That’s such a sad part of this, that this one person took away your love of yoga, which you were really into.
Tessi
Yeah. Yeah. I had done trips. I had started to do trips to go places to take classes from studios that I’ve heard of. It opened up a whole new door of ways to travel, reasons to travel because that’s always been like my absolute favorite thing to do – to travel. That’s just what I do.
Scott
And that’s all gone.
Tessi
That’s all gone. Yeah. I don’t want to go anywhere.
Scott
So you came back home. After you got back home, how long before he actually went to trial?
Tessi
A year. Yeah, I came back home not having a clue that I would hear anything. Around December, I knew he was in for six months preventative detention. They were not letting him out for six months. So, around December, I started thinking, I wonder if he’s getting out. I started to get curious, so I got a hold of like a victim’s advocate and then they got me a hold of somebody in the US Embassy.
Scott
Yeah, the embassy. That’s who should advocate for you here.
Tessi
Yeah. Apparently, they had tried finding me. They had my phone number down wrong or something went wrong, but I was able to sign all the releases, and be part of what they’re trying to come up with a trial date. It was a year and I had no idea the entire year when it was going to happen. I was just checking my emails nonstop all day long. Every day, it was just like waiting for word on something and it kept getting postponed. So they would have a date and then it gets postponed and then postponed. Then, finally, it was like almost a year to the day because it happened on, like, August 11th, 12th, and the trial was the next year on August 7th.
Scott
And they wanted you to testify?
Tessi
Yes. I had to testify again. They did make a deal where I did not have to go to Costa Rica, but I did have to go to a Costa Rica embassy. So the closest one was in LA, which is not that close to Montana, but I’ll take it. I also didn’t have much time notice – maybe two weeks, three at the most – once I got word of when the trial was. I did have a friend that said she’ll go with me. I got the date and we were just like, “Okay, here we go. We’re going.”
Scott
That’s good. You had some moral support anyway.
Tessi
Yeah, that meant a lot to have somebody. That’s such a big sacrifice. You’re last minute going to fly somewhere for a negative– it’s not a fun vacation.
Scott
And you’re flying from Montana to Los Angeles. Did you ever consider not testifying just because of the time that would take and the expense and all that?
Tessi
No, I’d already gone through all that. I would’ve gone through all the court stuff for nothing had I not finished, and I know they were counting on me not showing up.
Scott
Oh, they’re hoping?
Tessi
Yeah.
Scott
And so at the trial, the outcome was what?
Tessi
He was found guilty and given 12 years prison. I think the trial was on a Friday and I remember having to– I remember staying through till Tuesday because I was afraid the lawyer was going to do his shit again where he wasn’t going to be available, and I was like, “Why are they having it on a Friday?” So yeah, had to make it end up being almost a week long thing for a one day trial.
Scott
12 years. I mean, I would’ve guessed it would’ve been less time than that
Tessi
In the States, it would probably be. And, honestly, it probably would’ve been there also had it not been a weird summer of rapes and murders because the one in Tortuguero the week before hadn’t been the only one. There were two other tourists on the other side of the country that had gotten attacked and one was murdered. It was a weird time with a lot of stuff happening.
Scott
It sounds like maybe they kind of wanted to make him an example so that others don’t have the same idea because it hurts the whole country.
Tessi
Yeah. And I did feel that they took it more seriously because of those other gals that had been murdered. I don’t know if it would’ve gone as quickly or had as much support had it not already been like so real in their country at that moment.
Scott
How long has it been now since this happened?
Tessi
This August was seven years.
Scott
Seven years?
Tessi
Yeah.
Scott
And you’ve been in therapy. That’s helped?
Tessi
Yes. I came home and went right to therapy. I knew better this time. I was like, “You can’t go through something like that and not get help.” So yeah, I found somebody in town and then got somebody more specialized in a town that’s like 80 miles away that I would have to go to every week.
Scott
But it’s worth it though.
Tessi
Yeah. It’s not easy. You never want to go but, when you’re stuck in a place that you can’t get out of, you need help. I did therapy for a couple years. He ended up appealing and there was another trial. I didn’t hear about any of that until I got a subpoena for another trial in March of 2020. Right when COVID hit, I had to fly into LAX. I’ve never told my parents actually what happened to me.
Scott
Until now?
Tessi
They still don’t know. No they won’t.
Scott
Wow.
Tessi
Yeah. I just don’t know how. They’re old and I don’t worry about them finding out because they don’t do anything on the computers.
Scott
They’re not podcast listeners.
Tessi
Yeah, they don’t know how to do any of that. I remember the second trial was so uncomfortable trying to explain to my parents why I was going to LAX at the beginning of COVID and I lied. I said I had a massage class or something that I wanted to get into.
Scott
This is fascinating to me. How do you think they would react if you just told them?
Tessi
At the very beginning, I thought it was a funny thing of like, “Oh my God, they’re never going to let me go anywhere again, even though I’m 40 years old.” Like, they were always “worriers”, especially my dad. So it was just like, “Oh God, I can’t tell him. They’ll never let me go anywhere.” But then, I just don’t want them to know that. I don’t want them to have to feel that for me.
Scott
Oh, it would be a burden for them to have that knowledge. Is that what you’re saying?
Tessi
Yeah. And when this point might come, my mom would probably be mad because I didn’t tell her before.
Scott
Yeah.
Tessi
So I made my choice.
Scott
Even if they did find out, I think they would understand that you had good intentions to not put this on them. You don’t want them to have to carry this weight.
Tessi
Who wants to picture that happened to their daughter? It makes me sick for them having to hear the story. So it’s been better for me just to not have them know
Scott
After seven years, are you starting to feel a shift from victim to survivor?
Tessi
Yes. That is the shift. It’s not so much the shame anymore. It’s like I’m not carrying that. That’s not mine. Like, no. So that makes me feel more of a survivor, that I can talk about this and not have to feel embarrassed because this happened to me. I’m to that point now, like, no, I did nothing wrong. Sure, I made mistakes, but it was nothing to deserve what I got.
Scott
As I read your story and as I talk with you, I can tell you are a strong woman, you are a survivor, and I like that you specifically use the word rape rather than just sort of the softer phrase, sexually assaulted. That’s deliberate for you, right?
Tessi
Very. Because I remember coming home and I was uncomfortable to honestly hear the word rape. When I came home, it was the height of the Me Too movement. I mean, it started honestly when I came home. That was when all of that started. It was by Brett Kavanaugh. You would’ve thought I would have some, I don’t know, feelings about it, but I didn’t. I was almost more annoyed with it because I just wasn’t ready to face it all. So that whole movement was just like, I put it out of my mind like it was too soon.
Scott
What’s your message to other people who may have been through something like this?
Tessi
I am just so, so glad that I turned him in. I know of other stories of it’s even younger girls, even from Montana that have actually had the same thing happen in Costa Rica and they weren’t able to find out who it was. To me, that just makes it so much harder. At least I have something concrete. I put him in prison and he deserves to be there. What would it have been like had I not done that? He’s just living his life and mine has changed forever. So it’s worth it. It’s worth it to go through the whole turmoil of talking in front of people, telling your story, dealing with courts, dealing with all of the crap with courts. It’s worth it and I really hope the others can understand that and have the strength to go through with it. But unfortunately, again, a lot of times in America, you can go through the courts and they don’t do anything. They get let off with barely anything or there’s no evidence. That’s always the thing. So I kind of realized maybe it was better that this happened to me in Costa Rica than America. I don’t think I would’ve gotten the same– what’s the word?
Scott
It may have been a different outcome.
Tessi
Outcome, yeah.
Scott
Yeah. Well, you made this outcome happen, and thanks for telling your story.
Tessi
Thank you. Thanks for giving me a safe place to tell it. I appreciate it.
Scott
I think Tessi is just so amazing.
You know, when I meet someone and they ask me about this podcast, sometimes I’ll ask them if they’ve ever had something really unusual happen to them, to see if they might want to come on the podcast and tell the story. Most people have not been through something like that. It’s only a small percentage that have an experience that’s a good fit for a What Was That Like episode.
But Tessi is different. She has not only had the experience you just heard; Tessi has actually been on the show before, with a completely different story. She was the guest for episode 106, back in May of 2022. I encourage you to go listen to that one. It’s called “Tessi heard a tree fall”.
I want to tell you about an event that’s coming up. It’s a listener meetup – and you don’t have to live in a particular location to attend, because it’s online. Meredith and I are doing a Listener Meetup on Zoom, this coming Wednesday, November 5, at 7 pm eastern time. All you have to do is go to WhatWasThatLike.com/chat
We did this once before and it was a blast. You can come and talk about just about anything except politics, you can ask questions of me or Meredith, or you can just hang out and observe. Whatever you want to do is fine. And it’s all on Zoom so you don’t even have to get out of bed or get dressed (but if you’re naked you might think about if you want your camera on or not).
This meetup is listed as an event in the Facebook group so the details are there. But once again, it’s on Wednesday November 5 at 7 pm eastern, and you just have to go to WhatWasThatLike.com/chat and we’ll see you there!
Graphics for this episode were created by Bob Bretz. Full episode transcription was created by James Lai.
And if you’d like to get a What Was That Like hat or all kinds of other cool stuff with the podcast name and logo, you can find the full selection at WhatWasThatLike.com/merch.
Okay, all the announcements are out of the way so now we can hear the Listener Story. If you have a story about something interesting that happened to you – and you know you do – and you can tell it in 5-10 minutes, record it on your phone and email it to me – Scott@WhatWasThatLike.com.
This week’s listener story is a heavy one, and needs a trigger warning for infanticide. David sent this in and I appreciate that.
Stay safe, and we’ll see you next time.
(Listener story)
David
A few days before New Year’s Eve, 2020 to 2021, I came home from work kind of late around 10.30. It was a frigid winter night. It was very quiet out. Late as in late December. Our apartment is in a single floor ranch style apartment complex at the far end of our side of apartments. As I walked past the first apartment, I heard the voices of the man and woman who lived there, and it pierced the silence I was enjoying in a totally disturbing way. It was loud enough that I could hear it through the walls and very clearly. While I can’t remember the words I heard, the anger in his voice and the distress in hers, whatever was said, the way it was said made the hair on my neck stand up at attention. I’d never formally met them, but they were cordial enough. They had two beautiful little girls, aged 6 and 9. In the warm weather, they played outside and I always said hi whenever we walked by. They were friendly people, but this was 2020 going into 2021. As far as I could tell, the husband was unemployed because of the pandemic. Their car broke down, so we’d see the wife coming back from or going to the bus stop.
You could hear the tension between them. I was alarmed by this exchange and I overheard.
Once in our apartment, I told my wife and asked, “What should I do? Should I call the police?” They were African Americans and it was problematic at best. This was still close to the Black Lives Matter movement and recently a black man had been shot and killed in his own garage going into his house. There were a lot of car break-ins in the neighborhood and someone had called in a suspicious man in that neighborhood. Should I knock and see if they were okay? Obviously, that was a dangerous path to take for me, an older white man, being as I am to make during this argument that essentially was none of my business. So we decided to do nothing because there were no good options.
I went to bed. While I was concerned, we thought it would resolve itself on its own. Now, on New Year’s Eve, there was the excited cacophony of fireworks in the neighborhood but, by the end of the cold and drizzly day of New Year’s Day, it was cold again and quiet. So, it was surprising at around 11 PM to hear three loud pops that, as people always say, sounded like fireworks. I had a disturbing feeling. Suddenly and moments later, there were cop cars everywhere, including directly in front of our apartment. I immediately knew what happened. As the activity was at their apartment, I opened the door to peek outside and a cop with his gun drawn yelled, “Get back inside and shut your door, sir!” The next hour was a series of sirens in the squad. Cars outside our window had its lights going and were there idling for at least an hour, if not 2 or 3. I was in shock because my intuitions have been correct, but I still don’t know the extent of what happened.
At that point, my wife was on her iPhone scrolling the neighborhood page and eventually learned that there had been a heated argument. The husband had his gun, but the wife ran out of the apartment and escaped with no injury. She wasn’t able to grab the 2 girls, however. There was no time. So, the husband shot the two girls and then himself. The first police that arrived first grabbed the girls and put them into his cruiser and rushed them to the hospital instead of waiting for an ambulance. The girls were beyond saving, having died one shot, but I admired the officer for his quick thinking and acting.
This was a horrible start to the year 2021 with January 6th days away. I had a deep sense of guilt, even though my Facebook friends agreed there was nothing I could have done. The cold, miserable days that followed brought me little peace. There was a crime scene tape up and some toys on their patio. There’s a memorial for the girls who were buried together. There was no funeral for their father. I couldn’t go to the service. It was just barely post COVID. But mostly, I knew that I’d just be this older white dude nobody knew just standing there just sobbing and bawling over it.
After a thorough cleaning, the apartment was rented out to this family we call the Hillbillies. I eventually stopped parking on that side of the apartment and started parking on the other side further away, but not a constant reminder. I couldn’t walk past that apartment for about a year without thinking of them and getting sad. In the years since we stopped celebrating New Year’s Day, like the one just passed in 2025 – I wrote this back in January – they are solemn reminder and I doubt my feelings of guilt will ever go away. So now you have it, and I think I almost made it through without crying, but I might do so now.