Do you remember when you were seven years old?
At that age, your biggest concerns are playing with your friends, learning new things at school, riding your bike, and what to put on your Christmas list. At least that’s how it is for a lot of kids.
And that’s pretty much how it was for Tracie, who you’re about to hear from. She got along with her older brother and sister, and she loved her mom and dad. To anyone who knew the family, everything seemed fine.
But one day, Tracie’s mom made a decision that no one expected – and it changed their family forever.
If you’d like to contact Tracie or learn about her book or her app, her website is:
Full show notes and pictures for this episode are here:
https://WhatWasThatLike.com/266
Graphics for this episode by Bob Bretz. Transcription was done by James Lai.
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Episode transcript (download transcript PDF):
Please note that this episode of What Was That Like has a content warning, for discussion of suicide.
Do you remember when you were seven years old?
At that age, your biggest concerns are playing with your friends, learning new things at school, riding your bike, and what to put on your Christmas list. At least that’s how it is for a lot of kids.
And that’s pretty much how it was for Tracie, who you’re about to hear from. She got along with her older brother and sister, and she loved her mom and dad. To anyone who knew the family, everything seemed fine.
But one day, Tracie’s mom made a decision that no one expected – and it changed their family forever.
Scott
You were just seven years old when your mom passed. But just from that short time you knew her when you were very young, can you tell us what was she like?
Tracie
From the memories that I have, which are not very many, she was beautiful, petite, kind, but also a force to be reckoned with when it called for it. She liked to do things for others. I remember making cakes and casseroles, taking those to people, things like that, things that the Southern ladies enjoy doing. Like I said, I remember the Avon parties and things like that. That’s what I like to think about when I think about her. I guess the main memory I can always pull up is her standing in the kitchen. I know she worked probably more than anything else, but my memories of her standing in the kitchen cooking dinner for us and making things and making pies and things like that. So those are my fondest memories of her for sure.
Scott
Doing mom things.
Tracie
Doing mom things, yeah. The house that I grew up in after we moved there along the side of the yard were these yellow daffodils that would show up in the spring, and it was always such a big deal to her. I remember specifically talking about, oh, that means spring’s coming. Cold’s almost over. Spring’s coming and that was our bouquet of flowers. We didn’t buy them at the grocery store. She would go out, pick them and bring them in. And then of course, when I was younger, I realized the fascination with them. So I would sneak in, pick one and carry it and give it to her when they first started to bloom and things like that. I think, now, after I think about it, I’m sure if I still rode by there, I’m sure they’re still popping up because, the last time I rode by, they were still there. So now, I mean, that’s just always something because– I have so few memories of her that when I see those every spring, I’m like, “There’s mom’s flowers. That means spring’s coming. Spring’s almost here. We’re getting warm.”
Scott
There was a day when you were five years old that your mom brought you into the school office before you even started school. What was that about?
Tracie
She wanted me to– well, probably I more or less wanted to start school. I had two older siblings and they went to school and I was just so ready. My older sister would always read to me and we would write and spell and we would do it as games or whatever, but it really taught me a lot because I had an older sibling, so I could already do a lot of things that some kids started and haven’t even started yet. So she went in and was like, “She’s ready to start.” And they’re like, well– and I think it was my birthday coming late in the year kind of thing or it could have been because the class was already full. I’m not sure. But she was like, “She’s ready.” I remember her distinctly saying, “Oh, she can get past 100. She can write her name. She can write her name in cursive. She can spell. She can read all these things.” And they weren’t having it. So I had to wait a whole nother year, which was so disappointing for a kid thinking you were that close. I was ready to start school and she made her case, but they weren’t having it. So I had to wait another year.
Scott
All right. Who was in your family at the time? You said siblings. Who was there?
Tracie
So it was my mom and dad and then it was myself. I was the baby. My brother, Tony, he was the middle child. He was about nine years older than me, I think. And then my sister is, like, 11 years older than me. So she was the big sis. Her name is Tina and my brother’s name is Tony.
Scott
And your mom is Judy and your dad is Manny.
Tracie
Yes.
Scott
Okay. Who was home on the day that this happened?
Tracie
My dad was at work. He was always at work, it seemed like. My brother was at my uncle’s house up in South Carolina for summer because school was just about to start, so he was getting the last bit of summer in, and that uncle being my uncle in South Carolina that was my mom’s only brother. He was there. So, the only people that were home were my mom, my sister, and myself. I remember my sister distinctively being outside. We had a deck – which my dad was so very proud of – this redwood deck on the back of the house, and my sister was out there tanning, getting some sun and listening to some music as a teenager would do in the summer, I guess. I was in my room, of course, reading a book. That’s just where we were that day.
That day I thought was the worst day of my life I’ve since experienced – maybe one or two that were worse. That day, like I said, my sister was outside tanning and I was in my room playing, reading a book, and my mom was in her bedroom. I think she’d been on the phone for some reason – I’m just thinking that or remembering that just now. She called me and my sister into her room and said she wanted to talk to us, so we went in. My sister came in from outside. We went into the bedroom. She was talking to us and I just remember her distinctively giving my sister her wedding rings and her watch, and then told me, “Here, you can have my jewelry box,” which obviously contained the rest of what she thought was prized jewelry and whatever else. I was 6-7. I didn’t think anything about it, really. So, my sister was like, “OK, thanks, whatever.”
Scott
Now, at age seven, as you mentioned, you didn’t know what it means when someone starts giving personal items away.
Tracie
Absolutely.
Scott
Do you think Tina had any idea?
Tracie
No, this was 1982. People didn’t really talk about that. I’m not exactly sure what my sister thought at that moment, but I have a phone call with her tomorrow and I’m going to find out exactly what she thought at that moment because when I called her to let her know about the book and I said, “I want to get your feedback on your part. Mentioned you numerous times because you’re my sister and that’s my story. But I want to know what it cost you that day when that happened?” She was just stunned into silence and she said, “Sis, that’s going to take me a couple of days because nobody’s ever asked me that.” And then I was just– sorry. I just got chills just thinking about that. Like, nobody has ever asked my poor sister what kind of effect that had on her. So I’m looking forward to that conversation with her tomorrow. So I can’t speak for her and what she thought, but I can absolutely assure you that nobody back in 1982 thought that someone giving away their prized possession was a big red flag as we know today.
Tina left the room after that and it was just me and mom in there. I remember she got up and walked around the side of the bed while I was still there. She looked at me and said, “I got to get away for a while.” I said, “Take me with you.” And she said, “I can’t.” Of course, I was upset and pouting. I don’t remember what she said after other than to rush me back to my room or send me on my way or whatever. So that’s what I did. I went back to my room, shut the door, went back to read my book, and what I was doing. My sister was already back outside.
Scott
I would imagine, since then, you’ve thought about the fact that this was the last conversation you would have with her and you didn’t even know it.
Tracie
Exactly. I would like to think that she said, “Ok, we’ll go back to your room. I love you.” I’d like to think that she said that, but I don’t know for certain. She used the last 10 minutes that she had left on earth to give me something that meant a lot to her. I guess I had not been in my room for very long after that when I heard a loud bang and I just thought she dropped something, knocked the lamp off the table or something. So, I come out of my room, go over there, jiggle the handle. It’s locked. “Mom? Mama?” About this time, my sister comes up and it’s locked and she can’t get in. Again, not exactly 100 percent sure what she’s thinking at that moment. Those are the old timey doors with the little things on the knobs, so she instinctively reached up, grabbed a bobby pin, and opened the door.
When she opened the door, that’s when I saw my mom at the foot of the bed on the floor – I really didn’t know what to think or what had happened, really – and she instinctively just shut the door right back, and she took off. She’s like, “No, no, no, no. Don’t open the door. I got to make a phone call.” And she started making phone calls.
Scott
What was going through your little child’s mind at that moment? Do you have any ideas?
Tracie
I had no idea. I had absolutely no idea because that at that young of an age and– I mean, I wouldn’t say I was sheltered – my dad let us watch scary movies and things like that back then. I wouldn’t say that I was sheltered, but I really had no idea. In my memory, the first person I remember seeing is my mama, my dad’s mom – that was our name for her, “Mama.” I remember seeing her there with her purse and her glasses. I remember she just threw on some clothes and came right over. Again, me not knowing what’s going on, I knew that whatever had happened was really bad and I remember thinking, “How stupid is that? If she’s talking about what she’s wearing, like, something’s really wrong with my mom. Why does that matter?” But that’s the place that your 6-7 year old mind takes you. I remember several comments from that day that, years later, my dad was like, “I’m so sorry. I didn’t realize you remembered so much from that day.”
Scott
And of course, your dad came from work.
Tracie
Yeah, I remember there were other people there, too – the paramedics who came in. I remember he got home shortly after he got the call. I remember he had just gotten home and he was trying to get in the house. He was very, very headstrong, I guess, and he wanted to get in the house and they wouldn’t let him. So, he came back out. Just right off the back porch, there was just a small hill, so he just went and sat on that and sat in the grass. Nobody was tending to me, so I just went and sat beside him because I didn’t know where else to go.
Scott
And he was just in his 30s at that time. I’m guessing he probably didn’t get a lot of details when he got the call at work. He just came home quickly. How did he actually get the news that his wife was gone?
Tracie
Well, like I said, I was sitting beside him. I think he probably had some inclination way better than I did, obviously, because he was grown. I was sitting right beside him and a man came up to him and just said, “Mr. Blackmon?” He said, “Yeah?” He said, “I’m sorry. She’s gone.” That was when he found out for sure that that was the result of whatever he had been told at up to that point.
Scott
Did you understand what that meant?
Tracie
In my child’s mind, I really did not. I want to say that– well, I can’t say that I was completely in the dark. I mean, I felt like death’s always been right beside me my entire life. I’ve been around death my entire life even before that. People in my family just don’t live long, I guess. So, it wasn’t like I was dumb to the fact or didn’t 100 percent comprehend, but I knew at that moment that my life was going to be changed. It was going to be different.
Scott
I would imagine that the information you got partially would have been in seeing how your dad reacted to that news.
Tracie
And that was absolutely one of the, hands down, worst memories I have in my entire life just to hear him yell and to see the tears come from somebody that you thought was too strong for tears and I’ve never seen cry before. I knew it was bad. I didn’t know exactly what but I knew from his reaction that it was really, really bad.
Scott
You wrote about something else that happened to you that day that you call “The Golden Shield.” What is that?
Tracie
As I got older, I learned that it’s a trauma response and I just remember it so clearly. I just saw him like that – the person I thought was Superman, hands down, I thought could have whooped Superman’s ass, I’m being really honest with you – react in such a way. I said, “I never want anything to affect me like that. I know what’s going to happen is absolutely going to hurt me and I do not want to ever let anything close enough to me again to hurt me like this.” So I immediately just put up this wall, basically, later described as a little bit older child in a story I wrote about that. I don’t want anything to ever have that effect on me. I don’t ever want to let something or somebody get hurt or somebody get close enough to me that, if they leave or they die or something bad happens to them, that this happens to me.
Scott
You don’t remember much of the funeral, but you remember the graveside ceremony. What do you remember about that?
Tracie
I just remember– and again, in my mind, like I said, we buried my entire family in that funeral home and mostly in that cemetery. I hate going there because of that, and I still hate going there, and I’m still going there all the more regularly these days. I just remember we being at the graveside and I remember seeing her casket. I just remember it so distinctively because it was gray and silver with pink roses around the sides. I remember seeing that before they lower it and I just remember him sitting beside me and how ironic of a picture to have in my mind of us sitting together like that because that was it. We were just kind of stuck with each other from there on out like two peas in a pod as they say because we were just stuck together after that.
Scott
This happened about a week before you started first grade. How did it affect your being in school?
Tracie
I couldn’t have told you then because I really didn’t know, but I can tell you now, looking back on it. I have rang up some old friends and asked different things and I’ve had so many people tell me. For the record, this is total bullshit. Don’t let your past define who you are. That’s complete bullshit because your past is exactly who you are. You can paint it in a different picture. And if it makes you feel better to say that to yourself, then by all means, I want you to say that to yourself but, in my sense, that’s complete bullshit. That moment defined the rest of my entire life including the first day of school. From then on, I was always the girl that lost her mom, her mom killed herself, her mom must have been crazy, or her mom must have not wanted her – those kinds of things that people and kids say. So, it defined my entire life – every choice I’ve made, every decision I’ve ever made, probably everything I’ve ever done, good and bad – mostly bad probably because of the thing that happened to me that day.
So, that day at school – I believe it was the first day of school, could have been the second, I’m not 100% sure – I got called up to the office. They had the intercoms. Hey. Miss Austin. Can you please send Tracie Blackmon up to the office?” So I go up to the office. Again, I have no idea. I don’t remember what it was for. I don’t remember what they said. I don’t remember any of that. I remember I got back to the class. Nothing from there. It was almost lunchtime. We lined up. We went to lunch. And again, it’s like the first and second day. You don’t have a spot you go sit in. You don’t have a friend you go sit beside yet. You just go sit down.
Amy sat beside me. She was always very inquisitive, very outgoing, very outspoken, and still is very outspoken, and I love her for that. But I didn’t really even know her then. I know she was the girl that sat in front of me in class. She just looked over at me and she said, “Hey, Miss Austin told us about your mom when you were going to the office.” And so again, I was like, “Oh, my mom had been dead a few days. Nobody had said anything to me about my mom. I had absolutely no idea that my mom would come up on the first day of school or that the subject of that would come up.” It was kind of shocking. I didn’t really know what to say. I said, “What?” And she said, “While you were going to the office, Miss Austin told us about your mom.” And I was like, “Oh…” And then, she was like, “Yeah. She told us that. She told us that she died.” And I was like oh… I mean, I think the conversation was probably something like, “Be nice to this kid.” I don’t know. I’m assuming that’s probably what it was because I really felt like I probably had 20 new best friends after that, I guess. I don’t know.
I was sitting there kind of in my shock and I was like, “Okay.” And then, of course, the obvious question next is– she said, “Well. How? How did she die?” You only have a few seconds there to answer another seven year old who’s asking you a direct question and I thought was honest. I said, “She killed herself.” And then the next question was, “How?” Because that’s what a child’s mind is going to eventually think as they’re thinking through the steps. Okay, we know her mom died. Okay, well, how? Well, I know for a fact that I told her because, like I said, at that point, there was no way I was going to lie about any of that, and I think it. It probably shocked her, I don’t know, but she didn’t miss a beat and she didn’t act like it shocked her. Life went on after that. I’ve had numerous people over the years who weren’t in the first grade with me to ask things like that. It was a scary thing to say out loud at seven.
Scott
That was a pivotal moment in your story though, right? Because, I mean, you are still friends with Amy to this day, right?
Tracie
Absolutely, yes. Actually, I wanted to make sure she was okay with me putting that in my book and so forth, so I had to get in touch with her. Like I said, she did come to my dad’s funeral and we’ve talked on and off over the years. So I got in touch with her to make sure it was okay to mention that in the book and get her blessing or whatever. She’s absolutely so proud and glowing and absolutely happy, but she had no idea, really, the kind of favor that she did to me because she was so outgoing, outspoken. I’ve had a lot of people know me for years and never ask a question, so kudos to her for being the first one.
Scott
Yeah. With adults, we sort of “know” some things we’re not supposed to talk about. Kids don’t know those things.
Tracie
Right.
Scott
They just blurt out the questions.
Tracie
Yeah.
Scott
Okay. Well. Let’s take a step back a little bit and talk about the town where you’re from, which is. Wilsonville, Alabama.
Tracie
Yeah. I’m from Wilsonville. That’s the little town where there’s a caution light and seven churches. It does connect to Columbiana on that little highway that I lived on because that’s where the school was and the town and all the things. So, almost everybody that I met was from either Columbiana, Wilsonville, or this other little small town and we just kind of converged. We all had to go to school together. And Columbiana being where my parents are buried, where the funeral home is, and that sort of thing. The distinction between Wilsonville being the place where I grew up– it was more rural. Very rural with, like, farms and things like that. And then Columbiana being like the county seat – more city-like, I would suppose, if you’re going to call it a city – where most of my friends and almost everybody else lived, congregated, where the grocery store was, and things like that. So it was your typical really small southern town.
Scott
It’s like where everybody knows everybody.
Tracie
Oh, absolutely, yeah.
Scott
And everybody knows everything.
Tracie
Absolutely.
Scott
So how did that small town handle the news of your mother’s death?
Tracie
Again, I have to give them the grace that it was 1982 when mental health was not a hot topic. The hot topic was, “How did Jean wear her hair that week?” kind of thing. It was not a thing that anybody talked about, for sure. I do remember teachers talking about it and I do remember being in the grocery store with my grandfather – my papa – and seeing people glance at us. There were always those, like, tilt their head and they knew who I was, but they didn’t want to say anything or I think it was just so awkward for them and the shame was just so large that they just didn’t want to say anything in hopes to either not upset me, to not hurt my feelings, even if they had wanted to say something.
Scott
Could you sense that they were kind of looking at you with pity?
Tracie
Absolutely. I mean, I don’t know. I’m very intuitive, very perceptive. I mean, as young as I was, I could tell that I was being looked at with pity and I just somehow knew it. From that, came a lot of anger which, in reality, doesn’t make a lot of sense, but you don’t get to make sense of your grief. It does what it wants to do. But yeah, even as young as I was, I could tell. I could tell it was a lot of glances of pity and “Bless her heart.” Those kinds of things.
Scott
Back at home, your brother, Tony, and your sister, Tina, soon after that, went off on their own, so it was just you and your dad. Did he talk about your mom?
Tracie
No. When I would ask him about my mom over the years for many, many years, he would just say, “I don’t know why she did what she did.” That’s all he really knew to say.
Scott
I mean, he knew her for many years as an adult. You just knew her for seven years. That must have generated some big curiosity in you, like, “Dad, what was she like?”
Tracie
Well, I didn’t have the nerve to ask him that till I was in my thirties. When I say that, like I said, I made that Superman reference earlier but– he was feared by some people. He had a temper that would not quit and I’m sure that, while he was a big jokester with some people, a lot of people were actually kind of– he could be a little scary sometimes. Even me as a child who ended up knowing he was the biggest teddy bear there was, as a child, I was a little bit scared of him myself. So when he said, “I don’t know why she did what she did.” That was the end of the conversation. You didn’t go asking questions that you weren’t allowed to ask. There were just certain things in my house you weren’t allowed to ask, I guess, because he was very private about his life, especially after my mom passed away. So after, I just quit asking.
Scott
Did he remarry?
Tracie
Yes, he did. He had a girlfriend here and there and then, finally, they decided to get married. I was about 10. It’s so funny that you asked this because I probably should have put more of this in the book because I probably knew more about my dad than anybody else in the room, but he was still kind of an enigma, if that makes sense. It wasn’t much, much later till I figured out what his thought process was. He remarried when I was about 10, and it was a very tumultuous relationship for him and for me.
I think I was 15 when they finally divorced. I just told my dad, I was like, “Hey. I don’t need anybody but you. I’ve never needed anybody but you. I don’t need a mom. You’re my mom and my dad.” When I told him that – which obviously really spoke to him because he mentioned it later – he told me right then, “Well, the only reason I married her was because you were 10. You were about to be a young woman and I thought you needed a mom.” And I said, “No. I just need you.” So, from then on, it was just us.
Scott
If we fast forward–
Tracie
About 30 years
Scott
You were driving home from work one day and you saw a sign. What was that?
Tracie
Really busy stretch of highway. Driving home, I saw a sign. I just saw parts of it at first but the first thing that caught my eye was the word “Suicide.” I was absolutely floored. I was in my 30s, had two kids at home, married with two kids, and I was, like, “What?” I slammed on the brakes. Thank God. Nobody hit me from behind. I slammed on the brakes and was looking for a place to turn around so I could go back and take a look at this sign because I don’t think I’d ever seen the word “Suicide” printed out and sure as hell never seen it on a sign on the side of a busy highway before. I was like I got to know what this is, so I go back, I see the sign, and it’s a sign for an Out of the Darkness Community Walks that the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention puts on all over the United States. In all 50 states, there’s a chapter and they put on a walk every year to raise money for funds, for research, education, and things like that. So, I took a picture, went home, looked it up, and signed up for the walk.
Scott
You were supposed to bring a picture of her on the day of the walk. Did you have a lot of pictures of her?
Tracie
Well, at the time – I kind of go into this in the book a little bit – it just seemed kind of consequential. I signed up for the walk and that was a big thing already, and trying to talk my dad into going and things like that.
Scott
Did he go?
Tracie
He did go. He went every single year but, that first year, it took a lot of convincing. I didn’t realize how significant that one moment was going to be, but part of the instructions for that day is get here at this time, sign in at the tent. Basically, I had this punch list of things I wanted to do when we got there and I needed to do – things that they have at the walk. Now that I know it’s every year– this was my first year. So, one of the things was to bring a picture of your person to put on the memory wall. So I had to go digging through some old photo albums that we had and trying to find one– I just wanted to do one of just her, but there’s not a whole lot of those. Then, I was like, “This is the one, of course, because this is my favorite one.” At the time, it was the little, one by one, you get in the booth, put in a quarter, take some pictures, and spit out the roll. It was one of those kinds of pictures and it was in our photo album. So, I got that out, scanned it, blew it up to four by six so you could see it. I sure as hell wasn’t going to take my little bitty picture up there that day and risk losing that.
Scott
Way too valuable.
Tracie
Way too valuable. So I did that. To me, that’s what I thought was the prettiest picture of her, and it’s still a beautiful picture. Now, I have several copies – one in my office, one in my house. I have them everywhere. So that’s the picture I decided to take. They ask you to walk up and pin it to this memory wall which, again– I got signed in, now I’m going to take our team picture, now we got to go do this. So I’m walking over to the memory wall to put her picture up. As I walk up, this lady looks at it, she’s, “Oh. Is that your mom?” And I was like, “Yeah.” And she said, “She looks like a movie star.” I was just so caught off guard, blown away. I guess not that she said she looked like a movie star because she 100% does look like a movie star in that picture. It’s just that she acknowledged, “Is that your mom? Oh, she’s beautiful–” Acknowledged her as a person and not as a problem, a statistic, a stigma, something to be ashamed of, something to put in a drawer and never talk about again. It was profound for me.
Scott
Yeah. For after all those years, anytime anyone would speak of your mom, it was because of what happened rather than–
Tracie
Her as a person.
Scott
–her as a person. A human being, a mom.
Scott
Wow. One of the things you talk about also is the difference between silence and shame. Can you talk about that?
Tracie
We’ve talked about my dad. He was absolutely my favorite person on the planet. I know he was so private like I talked about. As kids, we didn’t ask about certain things because it was none of our business. If we did ask about certain things, he would straight up tell you, “You’re a kid. That’s none of your business.” So we respected him for that. Later on as an adult, I realize now that he was taking my mom and his memories of her, and he was protecting them fiercely. Out of that grew his silence about it. I don’t necessarily think it was as much shame as it was just he was wanting to keep his memories of her to himself, and I can’t blame him for that. But then, I also realized that the people that were not so close to her did not talk about her out of shame for what she had done or it’s almost like people thought, if they said the word “Suicide”, that it would jump on them like they would catch it or something. So that’s kind of how I came to those two realizations.
Scott
It seems like, in a lot of these cases, the suicidal person was trying to reach out asking for help, but the people close to that person didn’t or couldn’t recognize what was happening, and you mentioned that in your book. Would you read just a couple of paragraphs– read the section where you talked about your mother trying to connect with someone.
Tracie
Sure. Now, I have to tell you the hard version of that lesson – the one my family lives with. In the days before my mother died, she called a couple of my people. She reached out and none of them ever got to talk to her. The calls just never connected the way calls sometimes do not, and then there was no more time. You can still hear it in their voices when it comes up all these years later. The regret does not have to announce itself. It’s just there under the words. I need to be very careful here and I need you to be very careful with me because this is not blame. There was no pamphlet when it happened to us. There was not one at those people’s houses either. Nobody in 1982 handed anybody a book that said, “A call like that might be the one. Call back. Keep calling. Drive over there.” They loved her. Love alone does not come with training. But think about what those calls mean. She was reaching out. The attention I’m begging you for in these pages almost happened. That is what breaks me and it is also what gives me hope because it means the distance between how this story went and how it could have gone was never very far. It was the width of a phone call.
Scott
It just seems so difficult to recognize in the moment because we don’t know we’re in the moment. Is there some way we can be more sensitive to recognizing that?
Tracie
Absolutely. And I will tell you 100%, Scott, that is why I went to the Walk. That is why I joined AFSP. That is why I became a member of the board. That is why I took all those classes. They offer educational classes that you can go and put on for your community and things like that, and that is why I did that. I needed to know, “Could any of us have stopped it? Could we have prevented it?”
Back in 1982, I’m going to say that is a hard no because we just did not know. But now, having the knowledge that I have now– and this is what I always talk about when I go and talk to the fire school and I go and talk to the police officers and I go and talk to the community and the teenagers. You know your people. You know your friends. You know your family. You know if they are acting differently. You know if they are acting weird. You know a lot of different things. You know if they are giving away their valuables. That is a big red flag. You need to have the awkward conversation with that person. And will it be awkward? Probably. But we are in a time now where we can at least speak about our mental health and not be so stigmatized. But there are still sections, communities– men don’t like to talk about their mental health. They get a sign of weakness, things like this – all these different stigmas and stuff that is associated with that – and we just have to know that you have to ask. You have to ask the hard questions. Are you thinking about hurting yourself? Are you thinking about killing yourself? Then let’s get some help.
I mean it’s not on you to save anybody of course, but you’ve got to be the one for your friend, for your significant other, for your sister, your brother to ask the questions, and then be the one that facilitates getting them some help. It’s not going to happen overnight. Once you get them out of that crisis in that minute – that’s super important – you have to keep following up, you have to keep calling. If they don’t answer your call, go over there. I mean it’s what we have to do now, and I’m just so glad now that we kind of know some of the signs to look for and recognize. But if your person is acting the way that your person may or may not always act, it’s worth a conversation, and the conversation is not going to hurt or cost anything.
Scott
The title of your book kind of sums up why you wrote it, and the title is “Her Name Was Judy.” I mentioned your book throughout our conversation and it sounds like this is a commercial for your book, but I don’t care.
Tracie
I don’t mean for it to be that way.
Scott
But I got to tell you, and I’ve told you this already– what you wrote really has had an impact on me. You have a gift. A lot of people write about something that they experienced. And it’s just a simple narrative that describes what happened. That’s good for utility because the reader is going to understand the order of events – the things that happened. But as I was reading your story, I didn’t feel like I was just reading about your experience. I felt like you were sitting right across from me, kind of like we are right now, and telling your story specifically to me. You have a way of really drawing in the reader and I felt like you wanted specifically me to understand your mindset and what was happening to you psychologically as you talked about those various aspects. Anyone who reads it is going to understand what I’m talking about, so well done on that.
Tracie
Thank you.
Scott
And you have done more than write a book. You created an app called Meridian. How does that work?
Tracie
That came about from the book and because of the book and because of all the writing and the work that I’ve done. I realized that there are thousands and thousands of people that go to bed every night and not a single person has asked them how their day went. Loneliness in itself is an epidemic. And something that I always thought about when I was little and I still think about it now – and I’ve been in that place in my life in times when I was a busy mom and stuff – is that people are walking around every single day living their lives and not even realizing that they’re living in their lives. It’s more than stop and smell the roses. It’s pay attention to your child at that moment. Just be present for your parents at that moment. We miss all those things because we’re so busy going to work, making sure the bills are paid, doing all these things that we live this entire life and, at the end of the day, most of us can’t even remember what we did that day at all. So, that has always had a profound effect on me and the fact that I realized that when I was younger seems crazy to me when I think about it now. And then the fact that, now, here I am 40 years later and I’m still noticing that of people. We needed something. So, out of that has come Meridian.
Scott
And how does it work when somebody downloads the app? What are they going to experience? What are they going to see?
Tracie
Well, they’re definitely going to have somebody ask them how their day went. But the main thing is we want to know what our intentions are for our lives everyday. And like I said, we’re going to go through life living it and not even think about it. So this kind of basically asks, “What are you focusing on this week, this month?” Whatever. And then it asks you every day, “How’s your day? Did that make it in?” And over time – this is not AI, this is what you put into the app – it will basically reflect back to you. Hey, that call to your sister that made it in – that’s a win. But don’t forget, you’re still working on that self-help book that you haven’t finished. It’s not scolding you, but it’s just like an old friend sitting at the kitchen table reminding you, “Hey, don’t forget about yourself. I know you’re taking care of everybody else, but don’t forget about yourself.”
Scott
Holding you accountable for the things that are important, sort of.
Tracie
Absolutely, yes.
Scott
This episode comes out toward the end of August. September is National Suicide Awareness Month. That’s when your book and the app are going to be available – September.
Tracie
Yes.
Scott
How can people get in touch with you and follow your progress?
Tracie
I have a website specifically set up for the book and the app and all those things, where they can drop me a line or they can find a link to order the book when it’s ready, and that’s meetmeridian.co. It’s just like you’re going to meet Meridian, meet yourself – it’s the tagline which I think probably works out pretty good because a lot of people really don’t even know themselves until they start keeping up with it because I know that I didn’t.
Scott
And we’ll have that link in the episode notes. Tracie, thanks for sharing your story here.
Tracie
Thank you for having me.
Scott
I know at least two people who would be really proud of your work and who you’ve become, your parents, Judy and Manny.
Tracie
That makes me very proud. Thank you.
Scott
If you want to see Tracie, as well as that picture of her mom Judy that she talked about, AND links to Tracie’s website for her book and her app, you can get all of that in the episode notes at WhatWasThatLike.com/266.
And – Tracie is also in the Facebook group. Actually a lot of the past guests are in there. So if there’s something you want to ask her, or if you have a comment on her story, you’re welcome to join us in that private listener group at WhatWasThatLike.com/facebook. We’re inching closer and closer to having 10,000 people in that group, and I expect we’ll be there before the end of the year.
September is National Suicide Prevention Month. That means it’s a dedicated time to raise awareness, and really normalize conversations about suicide prevention. And for anyone who’s struggling or in crisis, you can always call or text 988 to get help.
Graphics for this episode were created by Bob Bretz. Full episode transcription was created by James Lai.
And now we’re at the end of the episode, and this is where we hear a Listener Story. These are always a short story, just 5-10 minutes, that have been sent in by a listener just like you. I invite you to record a story on your phone, just something interesting that happened to you, and email it to me – Scott@WhatWasThatLike.com.
This week’s Listener Story is in keeping with the theme of the story you just heard from Tracie – a reminder to be aware and be present for those who are still with us.
Stay safe, and we’ll see you next time.
(Listener Story)
My name is Raymond, and I’m in Conroe, Texas. At the time this happened, we were living on the west side of Magnolia, Texas. A major storm came through and, where we were, the power went out, roads were blocked, and communication was cut off. For several days, we had no reliable way to reach anyone outside our immediate area. My adult son was in California. We had been in regular contact, and he’s going through a difficult time. At one point, he told me I was his last pillar. We were trying to move forward together and then the storm hit. During those days, I had no way to reach him – no calls, no messages, no way to know if he was okay. I remember trying again and again, picking up the phone, hoping something would go through, and nothing ever did.
When communication was finally restored, I still couldn’t reach him. That’s when my niece went to check on him. She found him. He had taken his own life. Those days when we were cut off by the storm became the likely window of his death, and what stays with me is not only the loss, but the uncertainty. Did he try to reach me? Did he pick up the phone and hesitate? Did he need me in a moment when I simply could not be there? That question has no answer.
Five hours after I received the call that he had died, I learned that my daughter had been born. One life ending, one life beginning, separated by hours. I remember sitting with that, trying to understand how both of these things could exist at the same time – grief and something that looked like hope. That moment changed how I understand everything. Connections, timing and what it really means to be present for the people who are still here. Thank you.